Tuesday, March 19, 2024

Pele: I have edge over Messi

SoccerNews in La Liga 20 Jan 2012

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Brazil legend Pele has praised Barcelona star Lionel Messi, but noted that the 24-year-old still has a long way to catch the football legend.

Argentina international Messi became the second player in the history of the Ballon d’Or to win the prestigious award three times in a row when he lifted the title earlier this month in Zurich.

Pele acknowledged that he is a fan of Messi, but stressed that the diminutive attacker faces a hard task to equal him.

“Technically speaking, we are practically at the same level,” Pele told Le Monde. “We have both received a gift from God.”

“Records are made to be broken, but it will be hard to break mine. When Messi has scored 1,283 goals and won three World Cups, then we will talk.”

“People ask me all the time when there will be a new Pele. I tell them: ‘Never’. My parents shut down the factory.”

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  • Brad

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    here’s someone who actually sees the truth.

  • Charles

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    listen Pele z beta thn Maradona and beta thn any player i know,Messi hs a grt team(both at barcelona and Agertina) his not jst tht good bt moreover Pele z the King

  • Brad

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    Have you ever heard the phrase “Football is a simple game, but the hardest thing to do is play simple football”? (May not be completely accurate on the quote, but you get the gist)

    And have you not noticed that eventually Pele and company played the elite opponents during the World Cups back then? Another thing, even now African and Asian teams aren’t as advanced as you make them out to be.

    You are indeed denying Pele’s ability and position as the world’s best ever footballer.

  • fabio jouliani

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    well , comparing pele and messi is totally wrong and I am surprise to see pele is comper himself with messi .!! pele was introduce to football when football was simple .in his time it was easy to win over against for example: African or Asian or even other teams in south American beside Argentina Uruguay. in such simplicity if you are good is not surprising to become pele !! don’t give wrong I am not denying pele ability but knowing todays foot bal will tell you how genius messi is
    comering him with ronaldo is wrong too ! ronaldo is more lie excellent finsher whereby messi is not only a good finsher also a play maker and grate passor.

  • Brad

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    give us some facts, Islam. back then, those defenders may have been sorry, but they made up for it by taking advantage of lax refereeing and tore into attackers. Messi and CR7 wouldn’t survive in that hostile environment, nor any offensive player today.

    how many times must we go over this.

  • ISLAM ISTANBOULY

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    IM A BIG FAN OF PELE BUT BACK THEN THE DEFENDERS WASNT AS GOOD AS THEY WERE NOW, ALSO THE GOLIES ALL WHAT WE HEARD ABOUT BACK THEN IS THE PEOPLE WHO SCORE THE GOAL BUT NOW LOOK AT ALL THE NAMES OF DEFANDERS WE HAVE AND HOW GOOD THEY ARE IM SORRY PELE BUT BACK THEN THERE WAS NO DEFENDERS FOR ME MESSI IS THE BEST THAT EVER CAME AND CR7.

  • Brad

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    some of those goals have got to be vital ones in the World Cup, Rupen, that help his country win that trophy.

  • pure24

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    Brad, I’ve got nothing to say – you just put it bluntly, and bluntly is how the truth is best laid out. No but’s, if’s and maybe’s, just the bare truth.
    At Rupen that is exactly the point! As soon as Messi UNDENIABLY establishes himself as the best EVER, who are we to argue against that? But RIGHT NOW, he’s still got ground to make up… He’s a great lad that Lionel Messi, and he’s good people

  • Rupen Maharjan

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    yes, it is right that pele is a great player but i think he is very proud of himself and his record. Look at leo messi he is very cool he doesn”t care with his records he just enjoy playing football. He goes on playing and scoring goals and i am sure he will beat the record of pele and prove himself as best ever footballer in the world.

  • Brad

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    Another thing Pure:

    this Isaac “genius” said that more teams play now in the WC than back in Pele’s day. What he fails to see is that means, in Pele’s day, only the bona fide teams got to the World Cup. Isaac and company fail to see that, in the words of some actor in Narnia: “Numbers do not win a battle.”

    Also, if you were to compare the skill (not star) level of Pele’s teammates at national level with those of Messi’s, you’ll find Pele’s were superior, at the very least in being the most important thing there is, and that’s being a GOOD teammate, not a GOOD individual player- Argentina are know for individuals (read: Maradona), Messi being one of the relatively few to actually being a team player (Maradona could do it too, but not in a Brazil-esque fashion).

    Messi fans, you might as well give up. You lost this battle the moment Pele pulled out the facts he has over Messi. While the goals record Pele has may be broken by Messi (with La Liga’s defense, outside of RM in particular, and the stricter refs to boot helping Messi), now Messi is at the stage in his career where at most he has 3 more World Cups in him before retirement. And when was the last time a country won THREE CONSECUTIVE WC’s? Oh wait, yeah. . .

    Unless Messi gets some teammates who play with him for Argentina in the mold of his Barca (or while you’re at it, Pele’s teammates with Brazil) teammates, Messi isn’t even going to win two World Cups, let alone three.

    And it’s the World Cup where it matters most. More than domestic league, more than domestic cups, more than World Club Cup, more than Champions League, more than anything and everything else in the world of football.

  • pure24

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    Just to clarify @Issac; even two World Cup trophies is still TWO more than Messi. And yes, way more teams – but does that mean a tougher competition? If you note, SPAIN do not seem to mind this “tougher” era… They’ve won all the major tournaments they’ve participated in since 2008. So then we can say that they faced easier opposition, right?

    And about soccer stars, a major number of records is still held by many more people other than Pele who played during Pele’s era. And the guys who won the Ballon d’Or that time as well. The same applies to this era, other guys other than Messi have also made record-breaking feats so soccer is hardly “tougher” now than then. Yes, its more complex, but then so is its mechanisms – in fact, nowadays, defenders have been restricted by so many rules that its not the same as in that time. Even granting awards now is almost Europe-only!
    Lastly, Pele had great teammates, and that’s why soccer is not FULLY about individual performance. And so does Messi, but how can you say that Messi doesn’t play in a team full of stars (BOTH Argentina and Barcelona)? REALLY???

  • Ray

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    If want to compare,Pele played in a team full of stars that time, but Messi is not (national team).I think Messi is a better player than Pele by far (at their time)

  • Issac

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    Does anyone in here have any clue about Pele anyway? Yes his team won 3 WCs but Pele only played in 2 of them. He missed the second wc due to injury. He didn’t play in the knockout rounds of final. And plus there are waaay more teams playing in the WC than in Pele’s era. Lets just get those things straightened out.

  • derrick

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    who is lionel messi or maradona compered to pele yes messi is still young but even if he still play foot ball at the age of 45 he will not still score the number of goals that pele scored thesame with him to win 3 world cup not easy in this kind of morden foot ball that is been practies today i will say messi still have a very long way to go to be at the top of pele.

  • Talha

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    He should not compare himself with Messi because I is not possible football used to be a completely different game because if Pele was in Messi’s time he might not do the same. Because football is 3 times more difficult.

  • cliff

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    I think Pele played soccer when there were not too
    many good players Maradona played when soccer
    skills had improved and there were a lot of good
    players, as skills improve it would be impossible to win world cups consecutively for example I think Pele is too boastful. though I think Maradona has the edge
    Regarding Messi he is still young and will sooner or later catch up with the other greats

  • bryanirving

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    Messi has the edge. World Cup is way more difficult to win now than 50-60 years ago. European leagues are far more globally supplied with top class players than the Brazilian league has ever been. Pele very talented and made the difference in some great teams, but Messi’s goal scoring record in La Liga and over one year makes him in another class. Having watched them both and Maradona, I’d say Pele comes third.

  • pure24

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    Comparing times is simply a way of trying to go around the FACT that Pele has so many goals; way more goals that even if we were to take away the number of Messi’s entire career league goals from Pele’s tally, he would still beat Messi by an extremely ridiculous margin – Old times or not, Pele’s total goal tally is too big to ignore. If it were that easy those days, they why is it ONLY Pele with such a tremendous tally?

  • Be Real

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    Amos. If football has evolved from the war times as you put it, what importance does it have for Messi to break any OLD RECORDS. You Messi groupies are short sited when you want to. Messi is a great player, but he will never win 3 W. Cups. Where it was Pele alone or other 10, Messi will never have a team like that of Pele behind him.
    Sorry but my vote goes to Long Live The King, Pelé.

  • Amos

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    Comparing a full time professional to a semipro…..
    Messi is playing at the highest level of football. Football has evolved from the world war days. I haven’t seen Pele play. Have seen some of his goals. I am not is position to talk about his performances. He seems to rate himself very high. Messi broke another record this weekend. This is what he had to say.
    “The least important thing is the streak, I was fortunate to score in all those games and help the team to keep on track. But that’s not important. We wanted to win after the effort of the squad that were selected but we could not”

    I have ample time for modest humans

  • Brad

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    The credit goes to Pele then. His stats are more impressive than Messi’s AND Maradona’s, and so is Pele’s trophy haul.

  • Kwesi

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    Personally I think Pele is not in the same class as Maradona, let alone Messi. Give credit where it’s due.

  • Brad

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    Messi’s got a chance, Samin, to overtake Pele as the best ever footballer. But he hasn’t so much as equaled Pele, let alone bettered him, and his window’s closing fast.
    Pele’s stats speak for themselves, and the trophies he’s helped Brazil and Santos win to boot.

  • pure24

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    At Samin mahi , I agree that Pele was a bit too sarcastic, insensitive even. And he definitely came out as insecure – and again, the World Cup is also more than just about a single player…

    Messi’s record breaking feats are so amazing, and he’s always breaking more records that mostly its down to whom you hate the least/love the most. However, the very fact that World Cup trophies are more than just a player also emphasizes the fact that sometimes its more to do with personal opinion. And I am talking Ballon D’Or; its the greatest, most coveted award – yet, still a subjective thing. If you ask me, I think Iniesta and Sneijder should have won at least one apiece. And if you check, the winners are chosen by VOTE (not fans, but International managers, captains, journalists and the FIFA board).

    I think its only GOALS that are indisputable… well, not indisputable but the most solid proof of talent (except for goalies… and defenders. And some central midfielders) – and what do the goals tell us??? If this were the future, we would say Messi won FOUR FIFA World Player of the Year awards. And Pele scored OVER A THOUSAND career goals. So, once again: its a close one. Almost too close to call. ALMOST

  • Samin mahi

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    Actually a world cup winning team needs 11 good players.Pele had other 10 good players but Argentina lacks defenders. To be honest messi is better than pele or maradona or figo and pele shoud be more polite.

  • Georges Jean

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    Messi’s own statements! GO to the TOP of this page and click on INTERNATIONAL CUPS -then scroll to where it indicates WORLD CUP—-There’s an article about Messi there! And, finally, Pele’s own words: “When Messi has scored 1,281+ and won 3 World Cups,” then “we can talk.” GOAL.COM [a previous article].

  • Georges Jean

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    TO: Pure 24—Besides the post of Brad, I believe that you have your point about the Messi vs. Pele’s case. But, if you had paid attention to my posting, you would see that I emphasized all the way that Messi cannot be compared to Pele. But, for those who had insulted Pele’s record on this post, I would advise them to go the TOP of this page and click on INTERNATIONAL CUPS and then click where it indicates WORLD CUP—you’ll see an pertinent article about Messi explaining why he failed the 2006-2010 WCup [Date: 3-18-13]. I had made enough references defending objectively Messi vs. Pele [in the PAST] in my posts. Re-read my posts, especially the last one before yours and you’ll see what I mean!

  • pure24

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    Eish, this blog has become so vulgar!!! Unfortunately, and all I have done is spot this out; all the insults come from the Messi supporters… Its funny how they put Messi as the ONLY soccer player. I am not belittling Messi in ANY way, just stating the facts. Facts thaat are more than slightly biased to my opinions, but still facts. Even the best worded insults will do nothing to prove your points guys – and personally, I think you are being both insensitive to other readers and unfair to the discussion. It just goes to show to the people who are actually interested in this topic that you guys are more supportive of Messi than you have brains – go ahead, get as vulgar as you want and give me your best shot!!!
    This may seem of topic, but this is what I mean – I do not actually want to be rude, and I do not mean that you guys are dumb/not human, but just that you have given no intelligent debate whatsoever. There is no objectivity in your arguments and not an ounce of evidence-based fact! I am yet to see a PROPER reason why Messi is the best – hats off to everyone who pointed out Messi’s record-breaking feats. However, reasons such as “Messi can dribble better”, “Messi scores in every game” or “Soccer is now more technical” is simply a bit too opinionated to be fact. Here’s my argument for all three of the above stated: One – what is dribbling? I mean, according to me, the best dribbler in the world is Hartem Ben-Arfa, seconded by Andres Iniesta! So what are we using as a rock-solid definition of “dribbling” so that there is an undeniable basis and no bias whatsoever as to who the best dribbler in the world is/ever was?
    Secondly, you say Messi scores whenever he wants… Are you listening to yourselves? No, I’m not arguing against the fact that he does not actually score in every game. I am saying that somebody who scores in every game is not supposed to have less than half the number of career goals that Pele has. Fine, Messi still has a full career ahead of him but saying he WILL surpass Pele is pure speculation.
    And lastly, I actually agree that soccer is more technical. Then again, so are the clubs themselves – Barcelona now has players from all over the world; they have the money to get pretty much anybody they want and they have a full panel of coaches and technical staff, including scouts who can sniff out talent from the remotest part of the world and lawyers who are so savvy that they can beat APPLE in a court battle any day! Now that, if anything, compared to a time when Pele had to use pure skill and played for a club which could only afford fellow countrymen, actually puts Pele even more in an advantage!!!

    Indeed, I have written more than I intended. Yet, I must state two more things: The FIFA World Cup is just THE biggest and best soccer tournament in the world. Fact. And Pele has just achieved THE most as compared to Messi. Appearances. Goals. Records. Fact.

  • Georges Jean

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    Finally,an on-topic note: Pele said: “When Messi has scored 1281+ goals, won 3 World Cups,” then “he can talk with Messi!” In other words, for those non-reasonable and insulting comments about Pele, you’d better think twice before you say that Messi is better now than the unique legend Pele in the PAST. Simply, Messi does not think that he can compare himself to the King in Football, Pele!

  • Georges Jean

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    To reiterate a point, I simply will say that Club side level is different from International level; a good coach trains each one in different ways. To excell at Club level is not the same as World Cup level: thus, discrediting Pele for his International’s record does not do justice to the game! I do not want to be repetitive, but: What did happen to Argentina in the World Cup 2010 with Messi? Although Messi is performing well, he yet desires to win a World Cup with the Argentinian squad. Finally, if it’s possible, one may comment on my site: There is a module about “The World Cup 2014: Prognosis” Click on my name to get to the site. Thank you to soccernews.com for the purpose of commenting in the site.

  • Georges Jean

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    I believe that they are subjectively exaggerating in giving their opinions, and you’re right in that aspect. Thus, defending a player by how one feels about the player can be misleading; I perceive that your focus is fairly objective, which is somewhat good in terms of footballing conception. For instance, I used to comment on World Cup Brazilian blog, where many lauded my views on soccer; I hope that those who favor Messi over Pele ought to give fair and objective opinions; you’re right, of course, because some appear to be insulting Pele’s record instead of projecting well-informed opinions! There should be common sense and objective opinions when one tries to compare and comments! Your point, Brad, is pertinent to the post.

  • Brad

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    Another thing, notice how they’re opinions are: certain leagues/tournaments are only worthy if Messi has played/is playing in them AND won them.

    To quote a common rap phrase from my hometown: “You ain’t slick, you ain’t slick!”

  • Brad

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    Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but they are also given brains and common sense (“common sense seems to be an oxymoron though) for a purpose: to know what’s/who’s better. Evidently, the Messi bandwagoners above have neither.

  • Georges Jean

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    As I said previously, anyone had his opinion about whom he considered to be the best soccer players. While I do not endeavour anyone to agree with me subjectively, Messi is a great player and would desire to win a World Cup playing for Argentina. And this is a fact! Technically speaking, Maradona, Pele, Zidane, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, German and English players exhibit different tactics on the pitch. By the way, I had written an article about World Cup 2014, which is titled: “the Prognosis” You may click on my name above to give your opinion on some of them. Thank you!

  • Georges Jean

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    Anyone is entitled to his opinion. After all, this a fixture. Messi, has said that he is not comparing himself to anyone; if you read more features on this site, you’ll see his statements! Nevertheless, being somehow objective on this point, it remains a fact that Brazil won 5 World Cup Titles; Pele won 3 World Titles playing for Brazil. Without putting Messi in the picture, for FIFA this has gone into World record. As a great player in the PAST, Pele also watched soccer! Messi is also a great player! Pele likes Messi-and so does Messi. Let FIFA be the JUDGE. “Technicalyy,” Pele said “we’re on the same level.”

  • schoolfees

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    world cup is nothing compared to UEFA Champions league, winning world cup is a team achivement, pele is not even the best scorer in the world cup that he claims that he had won, so what was his contridution in those world cups. even the other players that played with hhim can claim to have won those world cups.

  • hamada

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    wow. its like any english fan actually being proud of the 66 world cup. pele is old history and both brazil and argentina won the world cup after him, it wasent becasue of him…any one who compares football in the last 20 years to any type of football prior to that is 15. or 14 because teams played 2-1-7, what the f are you talking about??? ofcourse pele scored 2-3 golas each game…pele only knew how to jump and shoot, he is like god damn heskey, he is a discrase to even 1% as good or as skilfull as messi or ronaldo…

  • hamada

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    pele is a senil fool, i hate his types
    always talking shit about how he is the greatest of all time, PELE go eat a dick
    messi,ronaldo,falcao,suarez,bale
    all of them are 10 times the player you were you fucking rubbish cluless person…defending and tactics are 100 times harder now, and specially against messi he played mostly against people parking the bus while you rubbish cunt played when teams played with 2 defenders and 6 strikers…
    i always get really pissed off by this pele charchter and maradona as well, atleast he doesnt talk rubbish about how he is still the best in history rubbish

    Pele, even morientes is 10 times the player you were…you played football when it had 20% of the quality and intensity of todays game so instead of talking shit go eat a dick and save your self the embaresment! because 99% of the people reading an article like this will laugh at you pele…

  • mani segaran s/o velu

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    pele is legend during the time football not developed well like now,technicaly,and the old fashion,but messi is doing magic on the field every time he plays now with wonderful technic/solo runs and scores goals every day,and messi never said anything about pele or even maradona,or comparing him to be like them……pls remember pele is pele……maradona is maradona………..and now messi’s time…….so the former legend’s can keep quite and see what messi is doing now…at this time the whole world is enjoying the way messi is playing football………….if you are declared as a legend,then pls keep ur mouth shut n stop critcising others,that’s the best way…

  • Georges Jean

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    Thank you, Brad.

  • Brad

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    well said Georges.

  • Georges Jean

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    Soccer fans must understand that winning and excelling in Club levels present various soccer approaches. A player may do well at Club level but fail at World Cup level. The World Cup 2010 is a case of study: What happened to Argentina with Messi? On International level, goals and winning a World Cup do count. Messi has not compared himself to Pele yet. But Messi is another “Pele” without winning a World Cup!

  • Georges Jean

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    Both Pele and Messi are legends! Let Pele be “Pele” and the truth is clear as the day…Messi yet has to win a World Cup for Argentina; Pele won three World Cups playing for Brazil. If you look at it in terms of technical skills with the ball, they have different styles. In general, only a great player knows how to compare himself to another great one. Winning a World Cup is the true test and Pele had passed the test!

  • Brad

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    I don’t know if you’re trying to put Pele down, or simply explain how things go, Seedorf. . . . please clarify your position on this.

  • Seedorf

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    Wen pele won d world cup, d teams werent up2 32, wen he scored all those goals goalkeeper werent usin handglove u&i knw hw vital a handglove is, wen pele was in active football dia werent d application of computer analysis to study d opponents, wen pele was active football was seen as a hubby dia4 everybody played it wit ease now its a bizness wit lots of money involve which means everybody is expected 2 justify dia wages. D d/f btw wen pele played d game & now is d dif btw black & white tv & samsung internet tv. Messi neva started as a centre forward rada as a winger check his goals per game ratio its 2gls every game if not more per game. Do not 4get his numba of assist .4 d past 4 seasons he has topped d assist chart he was only bettered last season on d chart by ozil. As 4 winning d world cup, its a mata of d nation one cumz from. U knw if he had nationalised in spain, u knw wat wud hv happened. A player like Ryan Giggs didnt play in any major int’l tournament until last olympic wit GB.

  • Roseah Edo'o

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    i luv messi but we agree together, that messi can’t break pele’s record.even if he dream for 1283 goals,he can’t win three world cup anymore.bcos dat will cost him 12 years plus dis, without loosing his form on hw he plays currently

  • Brad

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    Richard, people are talking for him. Have you not read the comments?

    Arshad, that was just plain dumb. Pele is superior to Messi. So if Pele is only third class, what does that make Messi? Certainly not 1st or 2nd class.

  • Anan

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    I can’t compare Messi to Pele now for many reasons:
    – first, nowadays, we all know that referees protect stricker more than they did at Pele’s time. so Pele injuried many times. In spite of all this, Pele scored 1282 goals
    – second hand, Pelé had won 2 world cups but Messi o

  • Michael

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    Please, people. When Messi’s career is over, then you can compare him to Pele. Pele didnt stay in the same garbage league as Messi is. Put him in the BPL and then start talking…

  • arshad

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    pele is a third class player as compare to messi.

  • Richard chaggs

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    Pele was and is stil the best but is ful of stupidity…..his 1283 goals raise eyebrows nw.if u a a legend then why making noise.people wil talk for u.he should learn to be well composed.

  • pure24

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    If u think what pele did was more
    Important
    .. Then ur right

    If
    U think what messi did is more ikportant

    Mabye ur right also

    ****

    THIS IS AN AMAZING ANSWER…

  • Brad

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    ^look at this guy, give us something that’s more real.

  • messi is just good.

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    messi is just good.

  • Byaro

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    Why are we arguing about hoe a 80 year old dude played and a 25 year old dude plays ……

    They where both talent
    But its also a sense of taste

    If u think what pele did was more
    Important
    .. Then ur right

    If
    U think what messi did is more ikportant

    Mabye ur right also

  • Brad

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    yeah, it is. I actually did laugh at his sorry insult.

  • pure24

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    ahahahahahahahahahaha…. Very funny.

  • ed

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    Once Pele scored 6 goals against against a very strong Girl Scout squad.

  • Brad

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    The only reason this Kwaku guy said that is cause the stats do not favor his argument for a change.

    Another thing, Argentina typically don’t have teamwork, so it’s safe to assume that it’s not going to change. Argentina are known more for producing charismatic individuals (think Maradona and Tevez) whilst Brazil brings out individuals who do everything for the team, and not themselves.

    Now, let’s watch Kwaku run away. . .

  • pure24

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    @Kwaku exactly what we are talking about, and Brad + others will attest – Why do stats mean nothing? Aren’t stats EXACTLY what you use to support Messi against Ronaldo???

    Come on man! give us reasons that have weight… If this were in court, your reasons of “if”, “when” and “will” would hold no water whatsoever. Now you are some kind of prophet or fortune teller? I mean, I can also say Messi gets a permanent drop in form from this night’s El Clasico!!!

    OPINION: Messi’s style is more attractive than Pele’s was.
    OPINION: Messi faces tougher defenders than Pele did.
    OPINION: Stats are rubbish!
    OPINION: World cup doesn’t mean a thing.
    OPINION: Pele didn’t actually score 1,283 goals.
    OPINION: Pele played in a tougher league.
    OPINION: Messi will have a career-ending injury.

    FACT: Pele has nearly a thousand MORE goals than Messi currently has.
    FACT: Club soccer is only as successful as the talent a club is able to bring (Man City will testify).
    FACT: The World Cup is the largest tournament in the WORLD. It is the greatest achievement a team can EVER have.
    FACT: NOBODY can tell the future.

  • Kwaku Tuffour

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    Oh whatever man…Argentina will show their worth soon enough its inevitable. They hardly have the teamwork that Brazil had during that time. Theres no long way to go Messi is in a league of his own, these stats mean nothing. The impact hes had is mind blowing because of Messi’s uncontested talent Barcelona and Spain will dominate.

  • Brad

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    Amen, Pure. Unfortunately, some dolt is going to ignore what you say and continue to insult Pele, avoid the facts, and run away when we correct them.

  • pure24

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    Hating has nothing to do with the facts – I hate classical music, but appreciate that it’s the best kind of music available. Hate poetry, but good luck finding a better piece of literature anywhere… Messi IS the greatest player currently in professional soccer. Messi however, is NOT the greatest player ever. That is still reserved for the best of the best, the people who have it all – people who have achieved the ultimate – both home and away. And we can all agree that Messi’s career has not been exactly perfect all-round. And Messi’s amazing career has spanned only four years. That is hardly worth the best-of-the-best material!

    Pointing fingers; “you hate this”, “you are rude”, “Pele is insecure” simply distracts from the facts. That Pele has done way, way more than Messi so far. I say “so far” because Messi still has the potential to annihilate Pele, but he is not just there yet! The truth is, we DO NOT know if Messi will have way better achievements than Pele’s by the time he retires. Instead of speculating, we can talk about right now, and right now, Messi has some catching up to do

  • tm

    0 0

    R u Mad Pale?

  • Brad

    0 0

    Marjan, they were in friendlies. Yeah, Wiki has the 700+ goal thing, but if you were to scroll down a good bit, you’d notice a kind of stat sheet that shows games where the tally increases to 1282. FIFA considers that to be the official tally for his career.

    And don’t bother trying to downgrade Brazil league. Back then, the Brazilian players played at their peak performance in Brazil. Therefore, the best players stayed home. The same went for the best players in other countries (Alfredo di Stefano and Ferenc Puskas being notable exceptions). It’s only been since the 80s that players have started moving at will all across the globe; the best of them always going to Europe, particularly England, Italy, and, ahem, Spain.

  • magugu

    0 0

    pele 3 world cups,1283 goals……………………….Messi 4 Ballon d”Or,91 goals a calender

  • magugu

    0 0

    pure@u hate Messi….dats all i can say

  • Marjan

    0 0

    Hai guys,

    Lots of people defending Pele mention his 1282 goals in a career ( nota been all in Brasil league, US league and national squad) but when I look at wiki it says that Pele scored far less goals (approx. 720) so where did he score remaining goals?

    Cheers

  • Brad

    0 0

    We can’t as Messi has yet to truly perform for Argentina at a major international tournament.

  • pure24

    0 0

    Actually, in a way – we can compare Lionel Messi and Pele. Who we CAN’T compare is Rooney Vs. Sebastian Vettel, Messi Vs. Michael Jordan or Ronaldinho Vs. Usain Bolt!!!

    Now I am just blabbing. But seriously, the fact that two people are playing or used to play the same sport means they can be compared. They are of different lifetimes, and both of them were/are amazing! Jealousy and personal opinion have nothing to do with their skills… That is why also, in many more ways, they are simply incomparable.
    Now Messi Vs. Pele then. Personally, I say Pele – U say 1283 goals is not official, but 600/700/800 something goals. EVEN THEN, they are still WAY above Messi’s tally. U say Messi has got better dribbles… Rubbish! Even Ibrahimovich and CR7 have better raw skill and don’t even get me started on Ronaldinho! Not to belittle Messi in any way, but Messi simply has better reaction time, an amazing instinct and can convert his already wonderful talent onto the field better than anybody at this point in time.
    But then again, someone else will say Messi wins the battle… So what do we use to get an indisputable answer???

  • Brad

    0 0

    Tallist called it right.

    Tanyaradzwa, you could learn something from that.

  • tanyaradzwa tatira

    0 0

    I am lionel’s biggest fan.He is better than pele and Pele was better than meeeeesi but the fact remains that we can’t the two since they played in years and soccer standards were diff as compared to that of current days

  • Tallist

    0 0

    My 2 cents is simply that best players are judged on the best stages.

    Football – World Cup

    Atlethics – Olympics

    Basketballers – NBA

    Etc, Etc, Etc

    Messi is very good but until he can perform consistently in World Cups (plural) then he’s can’t be spoken of as the best ever.

    In my opinion he hasn’t even yet reached the point of being discussed as the best to come from Argentina!

  • Brad

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    Barkafan, your name says it all. another noisy know nothing.

    Pele has an official record of 1280+ goals in 1360+ matches. So there’s your archive, now, please, shut it.

    There’s a Bible verse that fits this, doesn’t matter if you’re of Christian faith or not, just read. Sadly, I don’t remember which verse precisely, or even word for word, so don’t quote. But here’s the gist.

    “A fool continuously rambles on, there is no quiet.” (I know I got the “there is no quiet” part right). And it’s the job of the well-informed to repudiate them.

    Oh, gee, look at how many people the verse applies to who’ve commented on this article!

  • pure24

    0 0

    Okay, whatever man… This is not a Barca argument!
    This is Pele Vs. Messi; perhaps am mistaken, so all the guys in favor of Messi – why do u think Messi is better than Pele? What exactly has Messi done that makes him way above Pele.
    No offense intended, but every reason u guys have given so far is just subjective… There’s always another way of looking at it. U argue the goal tally’s but u forget that goals that Messi scored in friendly matches were ALSO counted wen adding the goals he scored in a calender year. Whats the official record for Pele’s career goals? and where are we getting these new values?!!!

    Am actually open to being convinced. But unless there’s some concrete reasons, there’s no way – absolutely no way – that Messi beats Pele. I wont even defend Pele… The records speak for themselves

  • shahosian

    0 0

    ronaldo is better then messi

  • shahwali

    0 0

    messi is the best still compared all other player

  • barkafan

    0 0

    CHECK YOUR RECORD WELL BARCA HAS BEATEN CHELSEA 5-1 IN THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE BEFORE,LOOK FOR FACT BEFORE YOU SPEAK OKAY

  • barkafan

    0 0

    PLS WHERE CAN I GET THE ARCHIVE OF PELE’S GOAL AS I DON’T UNDERSTAND WHY HE KEEPS TALKING ABOTU MESSI IF HE HIMSELF IS NOT AFRAID OF MESSI BREAKING HIS RECORD,AFTER BREAKING HIS GOAL HAUL IN A YEAR PELE NOW BELIEVES THEY ARE ON THESAME LEVEL,DOES THIS MEAN NEYMAR IS AT A HIGHER LEVEL THAN BOTH OF THEM,BE A GOOD FATHER NOT A CHILD AT HEART PELE,APPRECIATE AND SEE GOOD IN OTHER PEOPLE NOT HATRED FOR YOUR BITTER RIVAL MARADONA,COS YOU ARE SEEING HIM IN MESSI AGAIN

  • Vicran

    0 0

    Who is this D11?Lets see where these Messi sentiments would lead and when it will stop.The voters can keep giving Messi the ballon d’or,it will never make him the greatest because the facts will continue to speak.The blame should go to Pele who condescended so much as to make such a comparison.I wish he reads these so that he could see the insults Messi fanatics have continued to give him.I sympathise with neutral and objective readers who sense of judgement are continually being assaulted.

  • d11

    0 0

    pele you jealous you stil want 2 b the best. If messi was from brazil then you would say he is the best

  • pure24

    0 0

    I said winning by more than two goals, nt scoring mo than two goals!!! Except Arsenal…

  • Brad

    0 0

    A thought that just occurred to me.

    These days, there are so many different competitions at club level to play in, particularly in Europe. There’s the domestic league, one or two domestic cups, a one-off domestic super-cup game, Champions League, Europa, the one-off European Super Cup game, and the Club World Cup.

    It’s very similar in South America, though Brazil’s domestic league is very confusing given that it’s based on who’s in what region, then the national tournament, and only after winning that can you go to Copa Libertadores.

    Back in Pele’s day, it was so different. Back then, everyone cared about just the league, and the World Cup. The Champions Leagues of the separate world regions were still in their infancy (as was UEFA itself, and therefore the Euros). So was the CWC. Not only were they young, not everyone deemed them as important as they do today, unless you were Real Madrid.

    It’s because of all the competitions at club level that players have even more time to get used to teammates. And it’s teams like Barca, who already have so much chemistry to begin with by growing up with each other, who end up building even more chemistry by playing so many games with each other. Not only that, most of the Barca starters are Spain starters, so more chem goes in. I think that’s got something to do with Messi not doing as good for Argentina.

  • Brad

    0 0

    Oybek, Pele’s career started when he was 15, not long before he set the world on fire at Sweden 58. He didn’t end his career completely until somewhere around 1977. Plenty of time to get an incredible tally. Messi’s already well on his way to doing the same for his entire career.

    And I’m not sure if Pele needs to raise money to advertise himself. There’s Youtube, and plenty of books that have facts about Pele. The advertising is being done for him. It’s just that so much of the fans today are so absorbed in what’s going on now, they don’t bother to learn the history of the game, which is probably something they should do.

  • Jayanta Ray

    0 0

    @ of All…….Just not compare like a stupid between Pele& Messi. Messi is world class in Club Football but Pele is world class in both club& international football.

  • barca boy

    0 0

    barca beat arsenal 4-1 ,, and beat man.utd 3-1. and yet you say that barca has not scored any English team more than two goals… Pele is GREAT, Messi is GREAT and both of them can be used in the same sentence by anyone if Pele himself can use the two names.. Don’t be sad for sincere success of two GREAT men… have a nice day

  • oybek

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    Mr Pele,

    I don’t know what makes you say that you are unmatched but if you really want this current generation of football fans to get your message – your being all time great- your numbers 1283 goals and 3 would cups don’t do much of the help. Why not raise/spend some cash to advertise some of your performance on mass media to remind the youth of your all-time superiority?

    Honestly, I don’t know much about Pele. Only recently did I find out that Pele recorded a tally of max 75 goals a year. If that’s the case, how is it possible that he has 1283 goals? How long did his career last?

  • pure24

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    Thats a true one Brad…
    I noticed that particularly Barca fans seem to have a short-term memory loss. Or maybe they are too young to have that long a memory. Not to belittle Barca in any way, but FIVE YEARS of amazing soccer does not make you the greatest team of ALL TIME. Just the same as club performances ONLY do not make you the greatest player of all time. We are talking all-time; goals, medals, awards (not just Ballon d’Or, mind)… Barca has the blessing of having a collection of some of the best players in the world right now – almost totally consisting of Spanish players, who on international level are winning everything they are participating in. Its not surprising that they would make an already amazing player even more awesome (Messi, I mean). But if this record-breaking, award-winning prodigy can prove that its not about the teammates (that is, win a World Cup, or make some sense of his international career), then who am I to say he’s anything but better than Pele? If not… The facts speak for themselves

  • Brad

    0 0

    Okay, here’s the deal. They say the Brazilian Serie A is crap, eh? Well, look where all the good players go: Europe. England. Italy. Germany. France. somewhere else, too, hold on. . . oh, yeah, SPAIN. That’s today. These Messi fans, short memory, very short. They don’t realize, that, in the days of Pele, the Brazilians stayed home. Those that didn’t, went to Europe, and almost completely flopped due to differences in climate, language, football style, and culture. Europe had closer ties between each other, but Brazil still produced the best players, who were often spread out among the teams. That means that Pele was the standout amongst the Sao Paulo players (he did have some teammates in the same league as Carlos Alberto), and to this day has actually been forever linked with many of that club’s honors.

    At Brazil, it was different. He was the standout still, but this time it was amongst a superstar heavy squad, not a whole lot of no-names. This is similar to how Messi is today at Barca. difference is, Messi performs only at club level (though he had fantastic performances for Argentina this just past calender year, but don’t get too cocky). Meanwhile, Pele performed for both club and country, all through his career.

    @BencoAnyiam, I like that bit you put about Messi not being able to stand up to the hits that defenders dished out back then, especially to the best players on the park. And naturally, our opposition would claim that, if Pele played today, he wouldn’t be able to handle the sophisticated defenders of today. Not true. It’s because of players like Pele, George Best, Eusebio, Cruyff, Garrincha, Maradona, Zidane, and many others that defenders are so sophisticated now. I guarantee you, in later years, they will be more so because of Messi, but if it weren’t for Pele (or any others mentioned above), they wouldn’t be as good as they are today.

  • pure24

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    My bad man @BencoAnyiam… Didn’t mean useless skill-wise, or useless in a literal sense. Also didn’t mean to undermine Pele’s statement in any way; it just comes across as insecure, not that he is. Yeah, tongues need to be tamed and that was a loose one right there.

    Personally, I don’t even know why we are on this subject. Congrats to Messi for yet another Ballon d’Or! And u know what, there’s nobody really shining right now and if the trend continues, we might be looking at a FIFTH consecutive award. But 800 goals?!!! That’s too tall an order. It means that Messi would have to bag 100 goals every season for eight years! Three World Cup trophies? Messi will be lucky if he even gets to play all of the next three World Cup finals. Pitting Ballon d’Or as a reason is bit short-sighted bcoz the award itself is subjective. Its not an ultimate decider on who is the best player!

    What did Messi do that guaranteed him another Ballon d’Or ahead of Ronaldo? Messi supporters will use records to defend him. And yet somehow, records don’t matter when comparing to Pele!!! Come on guys, this shouldn’t even be an issue… Pele beats Messi any day. Come eight years from now and we will talk

  • BencoAnyiam

    0 0

    It’s most stupid to say that Pele is “useless” @pure 24! What makes him “useless”? To preface his submission, Pele acknowledged he’s a fan of Messi. But highlighted the disparity between them, and their similarity. His statement doesn’t sound arrogant or derogatory toward Messi. But as he rightly pointed out, until Messi wins three WCs, and scores 1,283 goals, he’s no where near the great Pele. To help you guys see how that maight be a real task, Messi is now almost 26 years. Pele retired from active footballing at age 34; so the next 8years will see Messi aging 34. Therefore, if in the next 8years, Messi is able to make his goal tally to 1,283, then, there could be real talk about between him and Pele, who’s the greatest of all time. I personally see it as almost impossible for Messi to score 800 goals in the next 8years! You guys commenting here should mind your language and tame your tongues a bit. The man never said anything he isn’t entitled. He got the audacity to his claims, and you shouldn’t rain abuses on him for that. Candidly speaking, I don’t think that Messi would be able to hold his ground on the style of play during Pele’s days, with all those hard tackles without referee protections, nor fair play rules. Consider the eras, and the rules of the game in these eras! being objective will help us here.

  • peter micheal

    0 0

    stop saying rubbish

  • Bretty

    0 0

    George Best was better than both of them and retired at 27. Even the great Pele said that.

  • pure24

    0 0

    Just out of interest: What does a player’s jealousy, insecurity and ego have to do with his achievements? I think Pele is useless, and wants to be worshiped.
    BUT. There is nothing any of you can say that will take away his achievements… I seemed to notice that many of u are better at calculating professional career goals than the associations themselves! Sure, Messi is most definitely winning Ballon d’Or again, but never see today’s talent and make it all time great. Brad’s point holds true – Messi’s career is not done yet!!!
    Lastly, ur arguments are so futile bcoz u use subjective reasons; use facts that will never differ from person to person. I mean, in my opinion, if Messi was in the Premier League where teams play every three days and have to face fatigue, excessive media pressure, really strict Association rules and such-like, he wouldn’t be ANYWHERE near where he is!
    The Brazilian league defense is useless? Let’s look at the La Liga one then, where Barca scored 5+ goals per game… The SAME Barca has not beaten ANY English team by more than two goals in almost a decade!!!
    You see, ur arguments are futile. Why do countries spend Billions ust bidding for a World Cup? Why do they spend trillions preparing. Why are national and international dignitaries involved? Why is it the most watched tournament in the world? Am sure its bcoz its not really important!

  • THE TRUTH

    0 0

    I agree with Brad.

  • Al'amin

    0 0

    ha ha ha for thos that are so strict on pele’s beterness why did he say they are on the same level, i am afraid pele is jealous of this generation’s football legend, why ddnt messi respond to this allegation? becouse he has only determinations, is it worldcup the finest glory in football? what about continental champions league lyk uefa champions league and coppa libertodores, how many does pele have?

  • KingEllite

    0 0

    You see pele he kills he could have went to any big club out of brazil but the Brazilian government regarded him as a NATIONAL TREASURE and also the fact meaning he wasn’t allowed to leave brazil and you Route 8 saint you talk too much

  • benji

    0 0

    PELE MUST THINK MESSI IS THE BEST BECAUSE HE NEVER STOPS TALKING ABOUT HIM.YOU NEVER HEAR MESSI TALKING ABOUT PELE, THEN AGAIN WHY SHOULD MESSI HE IS ALOT BETTER ALL ROUND PLAYER THAN PELE AND SCORED AGAINST BETTER QUALITY TEAMS

  • route 8 saint

    0 0

    pele is the biggest joke.

  • route 8 saint

    0 0

    pele is a joke, he ruined his rep years ago. everytime he speaks he should be stripped of one title. hes loco bro

  • kaleelcbk

    0 0

    messi is only barca star not another legendary football star great footballers fuck messi u are better than neymar then compare Legendary football kings ok…..

  • kaleelcbk

    0 0

    pele 10 times better than messi nevr judge king of football pele’

  • Brad

    0 0

    Cool story, Niranj, needs more dragons and stuff. . .

    Niranj, last time I checked, Messi has yet to help Argentina win a single World Cup. Meanwhile, Pele helped Brazil win 3.

    Do your homework.

  • Mfon samson

    0 0

    King Pele should not always involve himself in Messi matter.For now,it is an insult to compare Messi to Pele,who have won three world Cup with Brazil.Messi is great in Spain though not a Spainiard,while Pele is King.

  • Niranj

    0 0

    Messi got all the things that Pele got in his carrer now itself , and messi have a long time still in front of him . Which means messi can become powerfull like a double pele ..

  • Brad

    0 0

    Vicran, it is a tad unusual. However, in competitive matches, the stats Gus brought out are indeed true. What it is is that, some time back, I believe before Maradona’s time and certainly Messi’s, FIFA put the 1,283 goals down as official stats. So, really, we’ve got to go with that.

    Gus, very well said. And Ilyas, I agree that we have to let this rest, but the thing is, there are Messi fans who won’t let the topic rest. It does seem to be the right thing to do to repudiate them. No matter how many times.

  • ilyas

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    Pele and Messi are two different world class players that made their marks (messi is still making) in two different eras. Let’s just appreciate their contributions and talents and forget who is better of the two. To me, King Pele, considering his status and age needn’t have to raise the dust in the first place…what do you think?

  • Vicran

    0 0

    Gus is a messi fan that didn’t sound as one.He also wrote good english.But the logic is strange.Are you saying that verifiable,official documented records for pele are false and messi’s are true?You then turned and said the objective thing-lets allow messi to finish.Then he might stand a chance to catch or overtake him.Lets rest the case for now and let him finish!Would you?I doubt if the messi fanatics would.

  • Gus

    0 0

    The 1283 goals scored figure is only half true. Pele netted 707 goals with Santos and the Cosmos in 763 games. Now to say that as a scoring record that’s not amazing would be lunacy but to score 1283 goals in a 21 year career at the rate he scored his 707 goals would mean that he played approximately 66 competitive games a season on a club level for 21 years straight. Not possible. As far as representing his country statistically Pele is superior although he was supported by a better team. Which can also be said of Messi with Barcelona. Point is, the goalscoring stats for Pele are generally inflated and until Messi finishes his career we won’t be able to know who was statistically better. We never really can decide who was the better of the two because they played in different eras.

  • Brad

    0 0

    Doni, don’t be stupid. Pele got injured in 1962. While you got one fact right, which is a surprise, you didn’t bother to realize that he got hurt and was unable to play for the rest of the tournament. Look at the bigger picture. For instance, a few years ago FIFA awarded all players who were on the squad of their country when they won the World Cup a medal. So now the official, and true, statistics show that Pele is the one and only player to have helped his nation win the World Cup 3 times.

    It’s ridiculous to shrug off the goal stats that Pele has, too. Regardless of the league, it is no mean feat to score over 1,000 goals in a professional career. Considering the fact that the Spanish La Liga isn’t particularly known for its defense, with the exception of Barcalona and Real Madrid (who also combine that with the one-two combination of team chemistry and pure world class talents), your attack on Pele’s stats is nullified instantly. And considering that attack isn’t even new, it’s truly a wonder that you even bothered to continue harping along that line, especially if you’ve seen how it’s been so lazily cast aside.

    Gloria, I like how you put that. The problem is, many people seem to think that Messi is the undisputed best footballer of all time. He hasn’t even finished his career though. He hasn’t even helped Argentina reach the semis of a World Cup, let alone win one. As great as Messi is at club level, he needs to improve on the big stage for his country, as that just happens to be where Pele made his claim to fame.

    Both players have/had fantastic teammates with them on one team: Pele at Brazil, Messi at Barca. The difference is that Pele made a huge mark at both club and international play, without truly great teammates like Garrincha and Jairzinho, whilst Messi has only made his own at club level. This is partly thanks to the fact that he doesn’t have help from Xavi and Iniesta. Even for Barca, if you take one or both of those two playmakers, Messi experiences some drop in form, I’ve noticed.

  • Gloria

    0 0

    Pele is better than messi. Messi is better than pele. He won 3 worldcups. He won 3 ballon d’ors. So freaking what? Stop it already. Pele was the best off his time. Maradona was best of his time. Now we are blessed to be in the era of messi. It shows how great messi is for someone like pele to compare himself to messi, saying he has an edge over him(wow). The only thing is for everyone to be patient and do what pep advised. “Dont talk about messi just watch him play”. When he retires from soccer then we will have all the stats and facts to clearly say who is the best of all time. On the part of objectivity. I have a no of favourite players like maradona, zidane, R9, pirlo, iniesta and xavi. But messi is a magician on the field. Its no contest. He is my best.

  • Doni

    0 0

    He is too arrogant. He can win World Cup 3 times because of his awesome teammates. And for the 1962 WC, he only played 1 match. How can he claim he won 3 WC? As for his goals. He scored them mostly against Brazil clubs that didn’t care about defense. If he compares his goals to Messi’s, I think it’s irrelevant.

  • Vitalis marekera

    0 0

    Agree to pele tell them…. Not just conservative

  • Vicran

    0 0

    I suspected that these messi fans won’t let this matter lie.The worst is that their written English is as poor as their logic.What a shame.

  • Brad

    0 0

    you think he’s arrogant? listen to yourself and the other messi fans. and that’s without reason, too.

  • Thierry

    0 0

    He is arrogant coz he got the record and a legend…same like Bolt…break it and they will be humble…simple as that…

  • Brad

    0 0

    Ajn, I agree with your comment. . .. when it comes to you, joko, and other messi fans, that is.

  • joko

    0 0

    hellooooo …..where have you been Mr “P”ele…?!…your’e statement toooooo arrogant,i dont like u because your mouth…in the past time at youre era its defferen ,i think for this time is more player got more technic,skill than youre era Mr “P”ele…so i think if you play at this moment,…..youre nothing

  • Ajn

    0 0

    Stop speaking nonsense

  • Brad

    0 0

    Cortez, records are made to be broken. but it is proof that the 3 WC’s that Pele helped Brazil win, that is a single player achievement that won’t be beat by Messi. Unless Argentina were to win the next 3 WCs, that is. but we all know just how hard it is to win one, let alone 2, in a row. And Messi’s already played in 2 WCs. Not a whole lot of people have played in 5, and even the greats normally don’t themselves.

    He can win all the Ballon d’Ors he wants, until he gets his hands on that World Cup 3 times in his career, Messi can never hope to kick Pele off his throne as the greatest footballer ever.

    Go home Cortez. You’ve lost like all the other Messi fans.

  • Big Benzo

    0 0

    Gùys let b sensible ,if messi claims he is d best let him save argentina from their strategies, immaging world cup, d whole best player cannot even score a single goal.Atleast Ronaldo took his team to semi final,okocha help teams like boltön,sunderland,stock city to premier wat achievement has messi done to his country.all am saying is messi cannot do without xavi and iniesta.

  • snake

    0 0

    pele is the greatest of all time but messi can also match peles record in time to come or might not

  • Cortez

    0 0

    Pele won 3 WC? 1282 gol? only this? sory Brazil won the cup not pele itself.. dont get the name won WC by your name only.. your individual record only 1282 gol.. so keep watching..messi still young, 25 years, there have 10 year ++ above left.. Messi already broke your record 75 gol in one year calender by 84 gols.. to Compare Individual who greater, so compare individual accivement not country achivement..

  • Cortez

    0 0

    Lionel Messi is the Greatest Footballer Ever! Prove that Messi Better than Pele.. Pele record scorer in a calendar 75 Goal, Messi 84 ( 5 Match left ), Gerd Muller 85, will be surpass by Messi in 5 Match game left!!! Messi have 3 Ballon d’or, like M.Plattini,Johan Cruff! All Legend footballer Messi have Beaten!! at 25 years only! Soon Messi will broken all record.. n Get More Ballon d’or!!!

  • PHILIP DOMINGO

    0 0

    MESSI IS SIMPLY THE BEST, SO PELE SHOULD KEEP QUIET.

  • me

    0 0

    If messi should win the ballon do’r for the fourth time in a row, then pele need to go back to play football so as to claim that record before he can be better than messi.

  • PT

    0 0

    Although Pele can be boistrous at times he is absolutely correct. He is the man! No other player whether you like him or not is the yardstick everyone is measured. It is simply like this Michael Jordan, Ali,Senna,Sampras, Payton, Aaron and Woods only come around once in a lifetime. As for it was easier playing futbol back in the day…Have you seen the highlights of players trying to break the legs of Pele when he got the ball. If measured by todays rules they would have faced lenghty bans and criminal prosecution.

  • Brad

    0 0

    You call him a fool, and prove to be a fool yourself with that comment. Once again, no facts, nothing to support what you say. Seriously wonder why I’m bothering to reply.

  • A-z

    0 0

    as for me,I think pele is on jealous of ds super dude,he should leave d boy alone and let him concentrate ,ao many countries were playing world cup during his era?pele is a big fool,messi is just 25 and he has had all ds achievements,and he’s still not stoping,cos I c a brighter future ahead of him….so mr pele or wateva u call urself,go to hell

  • Ss Estawul

    0 0

    If the FIFA president and other footballers legent are not jealous, Messi deserves the best!

  • Brad

    0 0

    Yeah, you would talk since you always belittle Pele! But, while Messi is the best footballer in the world right now, Pele is still the best ever, and you can’t deny it at all.

  • Oybek

    0 0

    Mr.Pele, your nightmare is Messi and that’s why you keep belittling him all the time. Just be around, you gonna “talk” to Messi soon, sooner than you expect! One of your records is all “gone”, for instance.

  • Amaka

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    @ Ahmed,why are u guys always sooooo concerned about messi leaving barca to other clubs,did other clubs do what barca did for him? Barca picked him up when he was nobody and now God has blessed him all of u want him to leave,leave to where?

  • Brad

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    Exactly, Vicran. I’m gonna go ahead and tell you these people who are Messi fans don’t really give much of a fight except to belittle and insult Pele and the achievements he has, such as 3 World Cup medals.

  • Vicran

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    Baraka,if u want to post something that might offend people,try at least to do it in readable english

  • Baraka msombai ssack

    0 0

    Indeed MESSI will broke all recods,coz records was kept 2 be broken.pele is jealous with MESSI’s superble.

  • Socrates

    0 0

    A very good point pinson. Whether he could have withstood the kind of battering and kicking Pele and Maradona endured throughout their playing career remains to be seen. One famous quote from Platini when Maradona scored perhaps the greatest goal in a competition against England in the 1986 World Cup Quarter Finals: “If he had made that run in Italy he would have ended up in hospital” He was off course referring to the sometimes cynical tactics that was often used at that time in Italian football. Off course I’m not advocating deliberately taking a player out but instead expose a skill that is missing in both football players and managers today. I am off course referring to tactics or to be more specific: tactical innovation. Much of Messi’s current success in my opinion is down to Guardiolas foresight in allowing him a freer role than he had under Frank Rijkaard. He’s goal scoring rate and number of assists are testimony to that, as they are off the chart at the moment. Off course playing someone in a free role isn’t new but what is quite noticeable in the modern game is the absent of any tactical response from opposition managers to Messi and Barcelona’s tactics. In the past managers would respond to players in a free role by implementing a man marker or change the formation and tactics to respond or try to outwit the opposition team. This kind of tit-for-tat play resulted in some innovative football created like the 1970’s Dutch team or the Ajax team of the 1990’s or the German sweeper system. Nowadays managers all over put out the same 4-3-3 formation, their only response to the opposition and their only tactical reaction is sometimes going from a 4-3-3 to a 4-5-1 or 4-4-2. You’ll be hard pushed to come across another manager who is willing to put out a different formation. Which is why it is so refreshing, when you do come across someone who does. With the exception of Jose Mourinho, Marcelo Bielsa (currently manages Athletic Bilbao) is a manager that really excites me at the moment. The 3-3-1-3 formation he put out in the World Cup was so refreshing to see. I don’t know why that is, whether it is due to the rule changes or maybe there is more pressure in the game or perhaps managers today are not as knowledgeable in football tactics as they once were. Whatever the reason the lack of any tactical reaction has allowed Messi to drift in-between players unchallenged and coupled with his exceptional technical ability (close ball control, dribbling skills, vision and intelligence) and good players around him like Xavi, Fabrigas and Iniesta who can find him, a player like that can do a lot of damage and he does. God knows what else or how much more Maradona and Pele could have achieved without the attention of a man marker. Not that – they haven’t achieved anything off course- which speaks volumes of the their abilities.

  • pinson

    0 0

    if you say MESSI and CR7 are the best football ever had,why not check the likes of PELE,MARADONA,CRYUFF,ZIDANE,DE LIMA RONALDO,RIVALDO,NEDVED,RIVALDO,PLATINI and you’ll be amazed.Football nowadays is guided by too much rules unlike in those days when we ve defendes likes STAM,SAMPAIO,ALBERTINI,REDONDO and the likes.

    Now we ve last man rules,no celebration with fans,no kicking behind and the likes,

    Come to think of it,do you think MESSI and CR7 can survive the italian league of 1995 – 2000

    Be frank about it.

  • Brad

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    Thank you, Vicran, I love how you played that out, very, very much.

  • Vicran

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    We need to end this now.Its high time we stoppedWe need to end this now.Its high time we stopped belabouring this topic before we sound like broken records and boring.Why not pay attention to an urgent&crucial issue of global import like the better between Obama&Romney,irrespective of the result tmoro?Don’t say its not a sports issue.Few fans follow issues bothering on their idols with objectivity.Not with the viewers on this site.Its been almost a year!One who called himself Fence or fencer wasted time heaping an amount of insults i’ve never read nor seen,on Pele.Now people know that Pele was better with his legs than his mouth.Infact i find it shockingly-condescending that he is making comparisons between himself and messi-not even maradonna!Fifa,officials and coaches the world over who watched Pele, voted him the greatest ever.The younger generation who saw maradonna voted him the best.Now the new argument is on messi.If you want to be truly objective,you need to watch the clips of the three players.I have watched it.Time magazine in their ‘greatest people of the last century’ edition recognized Pele as the greatest ever soccer player.Now your view might be better than the submission of Fifa,officials and Time magazine,but if we dont accept the facts and figures,should we rather take personal opinions?Brad&co have worked this hard this long because they have the time,resource and patience to keep correcting these poor views that keep getting recycled.A man with information will never be defeated by one with mere argument.It is an information that Pele never won a Copa America because during his era,the south american soccer governing body had problems and the tourney was not held over a long time.No amount of argument can truly change this fact.In the same way,no argument will tilt the facts in messi’s favour.Make research or watch the clips.But why wont people leave Pele with his weakness and let messi concentrate so he can keep giving his best,then we judge when he finishes?If Pele was playing a distracting game,messi’s fans are falling for it and helping to pull their idol down.But some will not listen after this text.Brad&co,time for the next issue.Peharphs mine is not bad.You’ve done justice to this one.

  • Ofudje fergusson

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    If he think he his not y must he b comparin himself with young messi who dnt even care?

  • Segsee

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    Pele stil d best player ever but messi is anoda best player ever so why argue

  • Brad

    0 0

    You think he’s stupid? with that comment, I must say, I’m surprised you even think at all. Forgive me, but I’m being frank about it.

  • Ofudje fergusson

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    Pele is a fool, his just bein jealous of d great lion. All is record will b broken ssooooooon. Let him just sit and watch has his record his been broken.haaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaa,stupid old fool.

  • Brad

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    Thank you, Socrates. I admit, I never thought of that side of the game.

    Anthony, give us something besides excuses about Argentina being different from Barca. If Messi were truly the greatest ever, that would be absolutely no problem.

  • anthony

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    Pele needs to stop talking and be a man. How can you guys say that messi can not lay without barca formation. His country does not play same formation as barca. Messi does different job for the national team more like play maker for the national team. If someone is good people need to stop hating cause I no if messi plays for United or Madrid, It will be different case. So everyone that don’t like messi. Fuck Pele i used to respect him but he needs to understand that messi is very young when he broke most records. Every time messi plays, he brakes record Pele is scared that once his record is about to be broken if not now Messi will do it soon.

  • Socrates

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    Messi will make his own history I have no doubt about that. Whether he will sit at the throne wth Pele and Maradona is very doubtful as he is not good enough. It’s that simple. People are very short sighted when it comes to football skills, as if there were no skillful players until Messi or Ronaldo arrived. Utter bollocks. I hate to break some of your delusion here but there has always been great technically gifted players, in fact better than today’s players. If anyone is doubting this claim try playing on muddy uneven pitches, wearing hard leather boots and cotton shirts that soak up not just sweat but rain water? Try kicking or heading a hard leather football whilst at the same time avoiding tackles that can be seen as assault in today’s rules? The number one defense for Messi and players today is that they are fitter, stronger and faster with all the technology etc. Whilst I agree with that don’t you think if Pele and Maradona was playing today they will also have the benefit of the technology etc?

  • Brad

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    I don’t know about fly, that seems too harsh. But you’re right, they’re too short sighted.

  • cloud

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    .. brad, some people are just short-sighted, they only think the NOW and not the whole achievement of a player.

    .. as you’ve said, PELE IS A NATIONAL TREASURE IN BRAZIL. That is very big recognition, not even Micheal Jordan nor Schumi nor any other athlete has became a national treasure. People just can’t recognized to how big that sh*t is.

    .. a maradona vs pele would be better coz they both are gods. But a messi vs pele ?? Waste of time, it’s like a fly versus an elephant.

  • Brad

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    Of course, Shady will attack the club level that Pele played in. Remember, that actually isn’t Pele’s fault. His own government declared him a national treasure and banned him from transferring to a foreign team until after he retired from national duty. If it weren’t so, Pele would have played for the likes of Manchester United, Real Madrid, or Barca.

    Another thing, soccer is harder because, in part, of Pele. Great players come along and help change the game. Seeing as Pele is the best ever, of course he would help change the game and make it harder.

  • Brad

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    HA! You actually made me laugh at that, Dread. Yet another stupid comment. Argentina won the WC before Maradona played in one, for starters.

    Another thing, Messi is lucky to have teammates like Xavi around him, Dread. Jairzinho wasn’t better than Pele, and Messi isn’t better than Pele either. Just as Brazil wouldn’t have won the World Cup without the combination of Pele with Garrincha, Jairzinho, and Didi, the same is for Barca: if they didn’t have the combination of Messi, Xavi, and Iniesta, than their pedigree wouldn’t be as great.

    You’ll never win this, none of you. All you can do is insult Pele and downgrade the achievements he has that Messi hasn’t. You sound like 10 year olds. Open your eyes, and you shall see that, as great as Messi is, PELE is still the greatest footballer to ever play the game.

  • Dread

    0 0

    pele, u were lucky to have better players like Jarzinho around u. Brazil won the world cup not pele. only Maradona won the world cup single handedly with some average Argentinians around him. remember. came the end of his playing career no world cup. Brazil have won with & without u. u were just another speedstar with a bit of skill.

  • Brad

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    How can you be jealous of someone, when you’re still better than them? Particularly for your country, at the World Cup, where it matters most? Granted, Messi’s career isn’t over, he still has a chance to overtake Pele. But he is not there yet. So you can’t say Messi is already better than Pele, because you have no facts to prove your claim, and that’s because Messi doesn’t have the national team resume that Pele does.

    End of.

  • Bah

    0 0

    Pele is jealous of everyone.. silly old man.

  • Shady

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    Pele brags too much and it is very immature of him to do that.
    The time of Pele & the time of Messi are totally different. Soccer is harder now, it’s way harder than before and Pele is comparing himself to Messi who is just about 25 and yet breaks records every season.
    Pele played in that weak Brazilian league and other weak American clubs while Messi plays in Europe which is very difficult. As far as I’m concerened, Neymar had better learn from Messi than Pele if he wants to cope with the soccer of this generation

  • Abe

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    The problem is that Pele is jealous of Messi. There are no comparisons about both of them. We watched Pele in old fashion TV and we watched Messi in HD/3D. Pele should have understood that Messi is going to break his record soon. Just be patient old style! Bye bye!

  • Tshepo Moagi

    0 0

    why changing the club? thats rediculous….messi is good! its the club that makes him to be the best! it doesn’t need you to change a club to be the best!

  • Ahmed

    0 0

    Messi is a very good player bt I will accept he’s genius if messi change club nd still perform like CR7,CR7 from Man U to Madrid still counting

  • pure24

    0 0

    At night onman exactly HOW has Messi surpassed all?

  • Brad

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    Donchymax, he’s scored 12 goals in 13 WC matches, along with the Golden Ball (for best PLAYER, not necessarily goalscorer) in 1970, and was always the crown jewel on a superstar laden team, much like how Messi is for Barca today. However,Messi has 1 goal in about 8 games. Not impressive. In fact, he didn’t get a single goal in South Africa.

  • night onman

    0 0

    Lionel Messi (lion no mercy)has surpassed all he is the best footballer of all times.He is a threat to Pele”s records.He is setting a bigger unbreakable all time record.

  • Luemer Nnah

    0 0

    their is no equality between Pele n Messi, the margin is too much. Change barca formation and see if Messi can play again. Wat about his national mess.

  • jack

    0 0

    pele isnot see true for leo messi . messi is bad phantom for pele .

  • pure24

    0 0

    At ebenezer, no messi no argentine no barca? Seriously? Was this club and Argentina made for Messi… has barca never been great? and Argentina had seen far greater success b4 Messi arrived.
    Its rily shallow to think that only a top goal scorer or captain contributes to a TEAM’s success Donchymax – then again, you think Messi is THE GREATEST EVER…

  • Donchymax

    0 0

    Pele always make me believe that He is a fool by his cliams after all he was not the most important player in the brazilian team that won 3 world cup he played in never is he mentioned in those world cups as a top scorrer and no golden boot winner in any of them if he was so important to the team he should have been the captain of the team which shows how minor he is to the team

  • ebenezer

    0 0

    messi always messi even marodona have declare dat messi all de best no messi no argentine no messi no barca

  • Brad

    0 0

    how about some facts to prove it?

  • Lalhaokip

    0 0

    Messi is the best……..!!!!!!!!!

  • Brad

    0 0

    It always is a shame to see such talented players fail to win silverware, regardless of their nationality and who they play for, or even what kind of attitude they have (like Balotelli).

    the problem is, if Messi wins so much as a Copa America, forget the Confederations Cup and World Cup, many Messi fans are just gonna brag about it and say stuff like “that beats all 3 of Pele’s World Cups.” Yeah, right, 1 CA to 3 WCs. Ridiculous.

  • cloud

    0 0

    .. i’m actually hoping that Messi will win something for his country, but till that day comes, let’s not rate Messi so highly that he’s the best of all time.

  • Nwanza Oscar

    0 0

    No comparison at all but Messi has to defend himself out of Barcelona especially in his national team, he needs to prove to the world that he does not need the special player assistance such as: Iniesta, Xavi… to score, his record with the national team is poor not very poor but poor i hope he needs to do something then no body can talk…

  • Brad

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    Dapsony, skill level isn’t the only thing someone needs to be the best. All that talent, skill, flair, and potential are wasted if you don’t help your team win, both at club AND international level.

    Messi has done it at club level. But not at international level. That is where he falls short.

    Meanwhile, Pele did it at BOTH club AND international level. That is where he stays head and shoulders- and maybe even close to the elbows- above Messi and company (not a joke on Messi being short, not at all; just an expression).

  • Pure24

    0 0

    San makes a load of sense.
    I will not belittle Messi in any way, and its true that its rather unfair to say Pele, who is now retired and played in a league four decades and a continent away, is greater or not as great as the current top of the cream. However, since the topic is at hand and if you’ve got to give an answer… Mostly, its all down to personal favorite (or least hated), but you’ve got to judge all round success – at CLUB and international level. And Pele smashes Messi’s bar at BOTH club and country! What else can we use to judge the better of two players bridged by decades than by than achievement? Skill? Surely that will depend on a person’s perspective of skill…

  • Dapsony

    0 0

    Stat such as WC win make no count wt me when choosing d best player and it wl never do for any resonablly and objective person. We must knw dt no player can take credit 4 any cup won in d game of football as such belongs 2 d team. So it’s a team work 4 every game won an every cup won, no individual player, no matter hw good, hw creative, can tell me he won 3WC. If there’s such person, let him swear dt he did all d playin alone. I’m quite certain dt d only creteria 4 comparism among player are stuffs lik individual quality, ball control, dribbling,strenth and tricks dt resulted in goals.etc

  • san

    0 0

    both are greatest player of their generation….
    we cannot compare one sweet flower with other..
    as both deserve…praises..
    i have seen pele game…and..messi also…
    both are like player of another planet..so stop this discussion because….flowers are same …

  • cloud

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    .. all the god players are remembered because of their World Cup Success.

    – Maradona – hand of god
    – zidane – 2 goals against brazil
    – Ronaldo – 9 goals
    – Matthaus and Klinnsman – 1990 germany

    .. let’s just take maradona coz he’s from argentina, can we remember a game of him on Club level ?? If we mention the name Maradona, we would always say – HA !! THE HAND OF GOD.

    .. i’m not saying that Messi is an absolute crap of a player, it’s only that’s he’s over rated.

  • cloud

    0 0

    .. i wonder where is messi during that argentina-peru game.

    messi – the 70-goal machine, the only player to have scored 5 goals in a UCL game. But wait, all these are from barcelona. hahaha

    .. i couldn’t even name one good player from peru, but how come argentina only scored 1 goal ?? Where is the goal-scoring prowess of messi ?? Where is the man that won three straight world player award ??

    .. oybek, do you know why I value the World Cup too much ?? It’s the tournament where a good player becomes great and becomes a god. it’s only played for 31 days and on that 31 days, a player must be on top of his game at all times. Each game in the world cup is damn important. Losing one game in the group matches will automatically put your team in jeopardy in going to the next round. One hiccup and you’re dead. The league on the other hand is played for a damn long 38 weeks, you can always take back lost points as the week progresses.

    .. and if you compare that to Pele, he was only 18 when he demolished the world cup in 1958, scored a hat trick in the semis and had two in the finals. again, 18 YEARS OLD. He was an absolute nobody back then. 18 YEARS OLD.

    .. but for messi, 24 years old now, yeah, all his records are from Barca. But for his country ?? With their latest outing in Peru ??? You would expect a player of his caliber to sweep lowly Peru, but that didn’t happen. That’s why Messi will only be Dependent with Barca and that’s why he would never surpass Pele.

  • Pure24

    0 0

    Whats your point?

  • Roy Smith

    0 0

    My god, this argument is still going on?

  • Brad

    0 0

    I know right. crazy, the way so many people here try to belittle Pele. And they wonder why we use facts, which point out that Pele is in fact better, still. It may be that Messi gets belittled in the process of using facts, but then again, stats will belittle anyone and everyone who doesn’t measure up to the one who has the greatest pedigree.

  • Pure24

    0 0

    Hold on… Oybek. Do you know that CR7 and R9 are the ONLY players to have ever scored against every team in a single La Liga season? That means that Messi definitely left the pitch without scoring (for example, El Classico).
    Didn’t mean to talk about that… about the issue at hand then. Exactly HOW is Messi better than Pele? What part of Messi would we remember when he retires, and say he was better than Pele? Which achievements would we highlight and say his performances by far outshone Pele?
    Yes, Brad and Cloud etc… are using facts to their advantage. But that doesn’t make them any less of facts. A THOUSAND OFFSIDE GOALS?! Come on guys… ONE THOUSAND GOALS!!!

  • Brad

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    Oybek, I don’t mean to sound anti-barca, I REALLY don’t!!!!!! It’s just that I don’t like how arrogant some of their fans are. Yeah, you get arrogant United and Madrid fans, but it happens my views normally come into conflict with the Barca fans’ views (but not the teams style of play, definitely not). While I may be subjective at times (let’s be honest, the true subjective side to me is a whole lot worse than what you may think) I typically use facts to support my claims, which is objective. Apart from you, and a few others, the majority (read, most, not all) of the Barca fans just insult Pele and don’t use facts. When they do, they belittle Pele’s stats. It may be the leagues he played in aren’t very good, but then again, Barca doesn’t have a whole lot of opposition in La Liga. La Liga isn’t as defensively rough and tough as the EPL’s (Puyol being a huge exception), something similar to Brazi’s Serie A.

    They also say crap about how Pele played when there was “no offside”. Anyone who calls themselves a football fan should know the offside rule was made in the 1860s, roughly around the time when the Laws of the Game were written down. This does imply, at least to me, that they say Pele’s some old confused man who’s off his meds. Again, that’s insulting, which is purely subjective, not to mention a tad immature.

    I don’t say Messi is crap. . . at least i don’t remember doing so. but I have stated that his performances aren’t as impressive for Argentina, which is where his downfall is. While I do rank Messi is my own personal All-time top 5, he’s not #1 or #2. That’s Pele (#1) and Ronaldo (original, #2, and it happens he played for Barca and Madrid, not just one or the other.)
    Even then, Pele’s miles ahead of the others, while R9’s win for 2nd place was a scrap with Maradona and Zidane. Notice I don’t have any United players in this.

  • cloud

    0 0

    Peru ??!! against peru ??!! Is that how the named best player in the planet should play ?? Best player of the game and yet they only had a draw. Again, no xavi no inies – messi is crap.

  • Oybek

    0 0

    Cloud,

    Congratulations! Your patience paid off. You had waited so long to be able to comment that ” finally, Messi left the pitch without a goal this season”. But guess what! Messi may not have scored a goal during their clash against Peru but he was the best player of the match nonetheless according to goal.com!

  • Oybek

    0 0

    “We’ve used the stats, being objective (seeing as neither of us are Brazilian or Barca haters) all the way.”

    Why do I find it so hard to believe that Cloud and Brad are not Barca haters?

    Barely does any popular article go on this site without you guys siding with ant-barca position. One of you support MU while the other RM, both of the clubs Barca have always challenged to say the least. Apart from this, you guys were always the first to support any team like Chelsea in case of some controversy or anything this sort. You both can’t stand the fact that Messi is the greatest player of his generation, one promoting Pele, who has not touched a ball since Messi was born, the other trying to death to say that ” Cr7 is superior”.

    Should we redefine the term “objectivity” so your comment above makes sense?

  • cloud

    0 0

    .. wow messi the best player in the world scored 100 goals in their qualifying against peru – NOT !!!

  • Brad

    0 0

    Where’s proof. You’re yet another one who doesn’t use any facts, I’m wondering why I even reply to you.

  • Toba

    0 0

    Most goal scored by pele was an offside goal while messi scored great goals.

  • Brad

    0 0

    He helped his team win 3 WCs, he was the crown jewel and most important player on a squad with many superstars, much like Messi today. Only Messi hasn’t won a single WC.

    Contrary to your not so original opinion, winning trophies does make you the best. Particularly for country. That’s where it matters the most, after all. You can break records all you want, but if those record breaking performances don’t bring much- if any- silverware, then it’s pointless.

    As for poor league, the only poor thing about Brazil’s Serie A is the defensive steel (well, they are Brazilian), or should I say, the lack of it. But then again, La Liga isn’t known for defense that much, either. Otherwise, Madrid and Barca wouldn’t be winning so many matches by blowouts.

    I’m fairly sure that Pele would have moved to play for a European team- he definitely attracted interest from Manchester United, and maybe even Barca and Madrid- but he was held back by his own government. They labeled him a “national treasure”, which made it impossible for him to sign for a foreign team as long as he played for the Brazilian national team. Another thing: surely, if a league is a poor one, then no player, defender, midfielder, striker, or keeper, that plays in it would be anything less than poor. And Pele was the dead opposite.

    Answer me this, has any other player been named “national treasure”? I think not, maybe we should google it. I do know for a fact Messi isn’t.

    Nothing new with what you said, to be honest. Sorry for sounding arrogant, but these things have been covered already.

    Also, @ washed, Pele scored 77 goals for country. Of course he scored far more than 83 goals in his lifetime, and in definite competitive matches to boot.

  • Marius

    0 0

    Who is the best player in the world ever? Messi apparently.

    Who was the most fouled player in the last CL? Ribery, there’s some food for thought.

    Pele unlike Messi faced some pretty ruthless defenders and i’m pretty sure the president of uefa at the time never came forward praising referees for defending Pele.

  • Mark

    0 0

    Winning or not winning cups doesnt make u the best player.
    Best was amazing but played for Ireland so was never going to win something.
    Pele keeps going on about his World Cup medals when talking about who uis the best player. He one them by being part of a team, its not a individual honour!
    Oh his 1200 goals, most of them in a poor league. Not in Spain, Italy, England or Germany.
    I think you can only compare players who play in the same decade and the same position. Anything else is pointless!

  • washed

    0 0

    pele never play against quality like manu rio, vidic & chaelsea john, luiz & pepe , pique, silva, nesta maldini etc. iam very much confused whether he crossed the limit of 83 goals

  • Brad

    0 0

    The discussion is about whether or not Pele has the edge over Messi. That’s everything from goals, silverware, and skills.

    Skill-wise, dead even.

    Silverware, I have no doubt Messi wins at club level. But Pele’s pedigree for Brazil when he was 26 is far superior to Messi’s.

    Pele has 3 World Championship medals, he helped Brazil win 3 WCs, and therefore that is something no other player has ever done before for any country. Messi can only really hope to win 2, unless he were to play in 2022 as well and win that to boot. Were he to do that, (winning 3 in a row) than I’ll say Messi is the greatest all time, because then he would be! But he hasn’t even reached Pele yet, let alone pass him, so Pele is still the best ever!

    You’re putting up the same arguments as so many before you. I’ve already won against them. (yes, I know I sound big-headed, but I’m basing my arguments on fact, as well as my own opinions) Save yourself and don’t even answer back.

  • ysd

    0 0

    Well this one is for brad and cloud when you say pele scored 1200 odd goals you talk insane then you say pele is better than messi because he won 3 world cups.
    First of all the discussion was that who is the better player skillwise,technically nd staminawise nd pele alone didnt won 3wc it was brazil who won wc nd you compare international succes with individual brilliance,how stupid ?
    Messi is the best ever at 25 on individual skills, ball control,playmaker,scoring goals.
    Barca are barca because of messi,
    last year they went to ucl semis nd contested for la liga because of the amount of goals he scored,but ronaldo had benzema nd higuain alongside him.
    So the conclusion is he is the best ever player to have played the game.

  • Brad

    0 0

    Wow, didn’t notice I’d put that much.

    Another thing I’ve just noticed: “mancity would have beaten Arsenal 11-0 last season”.

    that’s a “what if?” scenario. So many people have done that here before, Mamu. No point in going into such a thing.

  • Brad

    0 0

    “Played football when there was no offside?”

    Nonsense, mamu. Offside rule was invented back in the 1800s. Pele played in the 1950s, 60s, and 70s. Don’t try and be funny.

    Though I do agree with you on FIFA being corrupt. . .

    And pal, I’m a United fan myself. I saw the same stuff you saw. I still do, as I fortunately received a channel recently that shows a lot of la liga action, so saying I don’t watch them regularly is also redundant. But statistics is what determines things like this, not opinions. In my case, and Cloud’s it’s actually both stats and opinion.

    I like what Cloud said. If it were up to me, Wayne Rooney would be the best ever player, not Pele. Or I could go with Landon Donovan, or Clint Dempsey, or even Lionel Messi. . . yes, I do love watching him play, unless United is his opposition!!!

    But sadly, it takes statistics to determine who’s best. And when it comes to that, Messi’s stats with Argentina aren’t as shocking as those he has with Barca, particularly in tournaments. He hasn’t won a Copa America (I’m not sure, but I do believe Pele did win one or two, I’ll have to google it), and he hasn’t even won a World Cup either; considering the World Cup defines a player far more than anything else, that is a big hole in Messi’s resume. Something that I know he’ll do his outstanding best to rectify, I know, but will his personal best be enough? He scored 73 goals this past season, as you said, which is eye-popping, but it didn’t bring la liga or champions league to Camp Nou. That part is what gets me scratching my head as to how it never happened. Yeah, the Catalan side won the Supercoppa, but nothing else that I can recall (please do remind me if there is anything else they won).

    I’m not sure of Pele’s specific stats, goals-wise and overall silverware- at the age of 26, but one thing that stands out is 2 World Cups to his name. If you were to downsize that, then you’d have to downsize R9 winning the WC in 94, due to him not playing there. Or, since we’re United fans, you’d have to downsize Roy Keane when we won the 99 CL, for not playing in it.

    Another thing, please don’t make assumptions of me. I’m not a Brazilian fan. I enjoy watching them, but my teams are the good ol’ USA and Manchester United. The way I watch Brazil is the way I watch Barca, an outsider entranced by the team’s overall flair, plus the superstars up front.

    I know I’m right. Statistics don’t lie, both in real life and in sports, and in history. I already know that offsides was invented roughly around the time the Laws of the Game were written down. That’s a good, um. . . 70, maybe 80 something years before Pele was even born. So Pele’s tally isn’t due to no offsides.

    You have failed to silence me. You’ve only brought up old arguments from before (apart from maybe one or two new ones) and I’ve answered in pretty much the same way as I always have. And notice how me and Cloud have always had the upper hand here on this article. We’ve used the stats, being objective (seeing as neither of us are Brazilian or Barca haters) all the way. I’ve not lost any faith at all. It’s almost like my faith in God, I guess. . .

    Messi has the chance to pass Pele as the all-time greatest. But he’s not there yet.

  • Csanad Horvath

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    basically never. no offense to messi but he will never win 3 worldcups. but he is better than pele. the tricks those days wouldnt even trick a dog today. Pele is good but messi and ronaldo are better, thats why i think maradonna is 1st, messi is 2nd, and c. ronalso is 3rd. ronaldinho, pele, ronaldo, cafu, roberto carlos, beckanbauer, puskas, di stefano, zidane all come close but messi is obviously better.

  • cloud

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    .. mamu, football or any other sports will be decided with statistics. If it will be based subjectively, all of our favourite players will be best-of-all-time.

    .. if i were to decide subjectively, i would say RAUL is the best player of all time. But that would be foolish.

    .. it’s even foolish to say that messi is the best of all time, he still haven’t won anything for his country, that will always be a dent in his career.

    .. and talking about argentinian players, why do they treat maradona as God ?? Was it because of his exploits in Club Level ?? NO !! It’s because he won the World Cup for Argentina, he lead them to Glory. And so is Zidane and so is R9.

  • mamu

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    its a shame that people like brad think that only strickers can be the best of all time..They seem to be subjective on this matter and yet they claim messi fans are.
    Its a shame no one brought the offside matter in February and now brad is finally silenced.You can never convince anyone that a guy that played during an offside era is better than those that play after the offside.As creative as brad is, This has got to make him doubt his stance on pele

    Ppl like brad think that statistics is the most important thing in deciding the best of all time.I would like to tell you that football is not mathematics and if it were,mancity would have beaten arsenal 11-0! Last season.

  • thanasis charalambous

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    messi is gonna be the best player in the world if he win a WC. only then. but now if he stops his career noone will forget him. pele plays only in america that is important. and do not forget messi isnt a forward. is a winger

  • Vilen

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    Pele is going senile. No I am not saying Messi is better than Pele, because that is a stupid comparison, but Pele saying he is better because he won 3 world cups? Doesn’t he aknowledge that he had a team? He came into one of the strongest teams at the time. I mean a player that sat on the subs bench for 3 world cup wins should be considered runner up to Pele then, I mean 3 World Cup winners medals will be his…

    Talent wise, Pele was ahead of his time he played a style which is closer to that of the modern game, but Messi is the master of the modern game, so IMO it is impossible to compare the 2.

  • greg

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    1 Maradona
    2 Messi

    long,long nobody after and then maybe….maybe
    Pele but it’s very doubtful because there are players like R9,Zidane,Best

  • mamu

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    Brad brad
    i’ll be more specific this time.
    It seems as though you don’t get my point.PELE is the most decorated player there ever was.no question.but brad he played football when there was no offside.how different would todays soccer be without an offside.Certainly, filipo inzaghi could have had a 1000 goals by his side.
    You can argue that mexico 70 was the first offside world cup but hey,go and watch the world cup 70 and tell me pele could have had 1000 goals if the offside was there.
    when Maradona was voted by the world as the best ever,fifa(a corrupt organization with no question) sabotaged the results and claimed that fifa officials will be the ones to vote.
    I am not even arguing about the great maradona(an argument which you can’t win by the way).nah.leonel messi.I just don’t know why people like you just cannot see something right before your very eyes.
    BRAD, Honestly, I am a manutd supporter for over 10 years and I saw what he did to us in 2009 and 2011.there are some thing one just cannot oppose.
    you claim that messi is always assisted by xavi and iniesta, you are certainly do not watch barcelona games regularly.
    you should look at all the 73 goals messi scored last season and please find out if xavi and iniesta assisted 15 please.xavi and iniesta are always not high in assists but people always use this against mess.They are gr8 players but go and look at the assist table over the years and see for yourself.I am not saying they don’t assist him, they do but he is not entirely dependent on them and can work with any decent players.
    As for his 73 goal tally,this is something pele could only dream of.his highest season was 110 goals.
    i urge you to look at the 73 goals and tell me if that is the creativity of someone like xavi and iniesta.
    you claim that he does nothing in argentina and that he only plays well in friendlies.again, you really don’t watch south american qualifiers.
    You should feel ashamed if you can mock messi who is only 26(God knows when he’ll stop mesmerizing teams) by claiming he has not won a world cup.I don’t care if he wins the world cup or not for surely he is the best that has ever been seen.Even maradona acknowledges the fact that messi was better than him.We all know that maradona was the best before messi.
    I think you have a grudge over argentina and I believe you are a brazil fan.I really do understand you because you have been producing great players for over a century and there is a saying that ” you ay be excellent,but not braziliant”. I believe that brazil have the highest amount of soccer superstars not question.So for a young argentine to be considered as the best ever is a huge blow to brazil as a whole.
    Pele,maradona,ronaldo,zidane, these are certainly the top 4 players we have ever seen on tv no doubt but all of them can be marked by a single individual.Messi is a player that goes past anyone,any team,at will.He does it with ease in a manner that makes a first time soccer viewer see the sport as easy.
    Brad,you know the truth and even if you are not convinced now,you will in the future.
    i urge you to see barca games this season.he will break his 73 goal record and set another one surely.7 already nd the season is just getting started.
    you know that to win 3 world cups is almost impossible.the only great top come close to that is ronaldo(2) and maradona( who was controversially left out at 78,won 86, lost 90 unluckily.The mere fact that pele boasts about his 3 world cups is even shocking.he had luck and one should not boast about outcomes he has no control of having.pele was great no doubt and will certainly be in football folklore till the end of time.But as alive as he is now,He and some ppl like you who are biased in nature dont want to admit the mere fact that a simple and humble little boy from argentina who is only 26 is considered better than the great pele.Pele is an offside legend and the offside is a general and integral part of the game.
    The simple truth is that it changes everything.offside is the reason why pele will never have an edge over maradona.but we’re talking messi here.At 26, he is by far that best player ever televised and we have not heard from folklores either in eqypt or in ancient greece about anyone that can dribble past any obstacle in football,is a threat any second he holds the ball,marked by 4 people at all times and can’t go out of every situation
    Brad has no point but to take this conversation longer.am tired of this argument and whats worse is the fact that I know I am right.

  • Brad

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    Tsk, Tsk. . . you’re really coming at me with that? that fist bit: “You should know there is a difference. . .”

    Quite plainly, no difference at all, Mamum. People like you Mamum, are the Democrats (read: Liberal fools) in a Presidential (or Prime Minister) election.

    By the way, Pele did play in the Champions League.. . . the South American one, the Copa Libertadores, I believe it’s called. And he won a few Club World Cups to boot, along with the South American CL.

    It’s convenient that you compare Pele to guys who won at least one CL, but share one thing in common with Messi: NOT A SINGLE WORLD CUP TO THEIR NAMES, in fact, George Best and Alfredo di Stefano, and Cantona never even played in one (In Georgie’s case, it was his own fault, he didn’t feel proper pride in his country; in the latter two’s case, x factors such as injury and bans came into play). And the fact he came off the bench to bring glory to Brazil in 58, shows he was pivotal.

    Also, something I’ve pointed out a MILLION+ times to other people like you: You say that it’s down to Pele’s teammates that he won 3 World Cups. Quite right, for a change. Here’s why: You can’t do everything alone in football, it’s a team sport. Teammates are everything. The SAME goes for Messi. Look at his achievement at club level with Barca. Look at who are the two best playmakers in the world: Zavi and Iniesta. Notice they assist a majority of the goals Messi scores. And notice, how much lower his goals per match ratio for Argentina is, where he doesn’t have those two to support him. Again this is an x factor that is uncontrollable- such as Pele’s injury in 62- but surely, if Messi was truly the greatest all time, that wouldn’t matter.

    The thing is, Mamum, both Pele AND Messi are the crown jewels of already superstar heavy squads. It just happens that Pele was the big guy on campus at both club AND international level (where it counts the most) while Messi has still yet to truly make an impact for Argentina, particularly in a major tourney at Senior Level. When you compare that to Pele scoring 6 goals in just 4 games in his first world cup, you’ll see Pele is better. So why compare a friendly to a World Cup? Honestly. . . I’m American, and we just won our first ever match against Mexico in their home stadium. Likewise, we also won our first ever game against Italy. Thing is, they were friendlies. Once we do that in a real tournament, then we’ll talk. Same goes for Messi’s hat trick against Brazil. Yes, Brazil is tough, possibly the toughest team of all-time, but friendlies are still something to not get excited about.

    You’re still every bit as subjective as everyone who supports Messi. Yes, I’m subjective myself, but I’ve been a lot more objective about it. Many of those people you mentioned won the World Cup, but no one beside Pele has won 3. In fact, you just tried to compare guys like Cruyff and Puskas, and co., who didn’t even win World Cups to Pele, and that sounds familiar. . . oh yeah, Messi hasn’t won a WC, and you seem to think he’s greater than Pele. How ridiculous, for you to compare ANYONE (even Georgie) favorably to Pele.

  • mamum

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    BRAD and ALIKE
    You should know that there is a difference between the best player ever and the greatest player ever.pele is the greatest but s for the best,you know deep down that none has ever nearly reached the quality that messi has.can you really tell me that pele,a guy that was ok with the ball is the best there ever was?, come on there was maradona.you should know that pele was lucky to have 3 world cups.he personally won one, 1962 was won by garrincha,and the 1970 medal was not given to him in the first place.pele was good and there is no doubt about that.But the world has never seen or heard what messi is doing right now and you have no argument on this.
    as for his performance in argentina,you clearly did not watch the recent argentina brazil game.he singlehandedly won the game and don’t even say brazil is not a good team.
    leo messi can be criticized now,but for a 25 year old boy to be considered as the best there ever was,we don’t base our arguments on such a big issue without rational proof.
    if messi was a story, people like you brad will be the villains and when messi retires,he will surely be honored as the best there ever was.
    as for pele,he was clearly not the best player ever.he did not come to europe and prove to the world how good he was.the brazilian teaM consist of greats like rivaling,tostao,carlos alberto and garrincha.you can go and see the 1970 world cup and there were equally good players like pele on the team.the edge that he has over his teammates is that when he was a 17 year old boy,he came of from the bench when hope was lost and brought glory to brazil eight years after the heartbreak of 1950 maracana.pele was great but he never played the champions league.what can you say about cryuff,maradona,bobby charlton,george best(whom pele acknowledged was better than him),pushkas,alfredo di stefano,guiseppe meazza,zidane,ronaldinho,zico,socrates,garrincha,cantona ,ronaldo,ronaldo,eusebio,romario,hagi.these equally matched pele and some were better than him.his 1200+ goals were just his own calculation.some were even from personal local goals.
    pele was no doubt good but to say he is the best is out of question.he certainly was the greatest but definitely not the best.the matter of choosing the best player is a big one and lionel messi certainly is making his tory everyday and is the only one capable of being attributed the title of the best ever.At least for now.

  • Brad

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    And someone needs to grow up. His eyes have yet to even open, so of course he can’t see the fact that all he did is sound like a little child and Pele is still the best all time and Messi still has a long way to go to even reach Pele, let alone pass him.

  • messi d10s

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    Haha pele you old fart I thought u were dead already! . Here we go pele with his stupid comments lay off that meth man! This comment is as stupid as your other ones which say neymar is better than messi! Haha your a fucken joke pele .just shut ur mouth and let people remember you as the great pele not the pele that makes stupid comments cuz he’s pissed off Brazil doesn’t have the best player anymore ! Cant face the fact messi is already greater than you! . Messi is the greatest in the history ! Neymar lost gold medal match against Mexico! Sorry pele u need rehab lay off those rocks!

  • Brad

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    Incorrect. The real saying is “Maradona? Good. Pele? Better. George? BEST!”

    but we all know Pele is still better, you can see it, you just don’t want to admit it.

    I’ll go ahead and say Messi is already an all-time great, but he’s not even level with, let alone better than, Pele. He hasn’t even won a WC, so how do you expect him to be better, especially as he’s virtually invisible for Argentina more often than not in any game?

  • Tony

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    Pele was good
    Maradona was better
    Messi is best

  • Brad

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    Why can’t you just see it’s not just skill and dribbling that helps you be the best, it’s winning silverware to PROVE it, for BOTH club AND COUNTRY! So far, Messi has only done it at club level! He’s not the best, mamu. Pele is.

  • mamu

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    lionel messi is the only footballer in ancient and modern times that dribbles his way out of any defense in the world.he does not care how good your defense is.He shatteres any defence and is the hardest player to mark in the history of football.If you look closely,messi is never marked by single or two players.he can’t be marked by a defender but destroys a whole defense.no soccer player was this much important to mark,there are always 4 or 5 marking him and none in soccer ever possessed such skill.maradona scored by dribbling 5 english players and that was the greatest goal ever scored.Messi scored at least 10 goals of that magnitude last season.why can’t you just see.

  • Brad

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    And they’ve also created a large number of Messi’s goals to boot. Look at how low his goals per match ratio is for Argentina, when compared to his ratio for Barca.

  • cloud

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    .. and as for the current crop of players, i would say Iniesta and Xavi are better than Messi. These two has helped Barca dominate and also helped Spain to win and defend their Euro title and of course, the WC.

  • cloud

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    .. winning three world player awards in succession doesn’t make you the All-Time Greatest Football Player.

    .. what makes a football player a God is when you have done everything there is for your Club and Country.

    .. i would even say that Zidane and R9 are better than Messi. These players don’t carry any “record” with them, but their drive and determination helped their clubs and their countries win multiple trophies.

    .. take r9 for example, he had a major knee injury last 2001 but he came back and played in the 2002 World Cup and rolled over everyone in his path. Now that’s what you call a god-like player.

    .. and let’s see how messi is with argentina; he was not even visible in Copa America 2011; he can’t even score a goal against Bolivia, Costa Rica and Colombia. Messi already has 2 World Player awards back then, but he can’t even show it in against lowly teams.

  • Pure24

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    Exactly. A player is great by working in cohesion with his teammates. Messi is that at Barcelona. A player becomes even more great as a solo player Once again, Messi can take matters into his own hands… So Messi IS great. But Pele great? Not even close

  • Brad

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    Duly noted, Pure. Well, more than duly, I suppose. . .

    Also, another example like the ones you gave of improper reason is right above your previous comment: “At 25 years old he has many years ahead. ..”

    Quite frankly, this guy stated that Messi’s already the best all time, especially when he made an attack on Pele not having his meds. Still not a single fact to support him.

    Messi is already an all-time great in my opinion. BUT, to say he’s the best there has ever been is bull. He hasn’t even won a World Cup, for crying out loud, and that’s the trophy no player can be complete unless they have it on their resume.

  • Pure24

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    Brad, Anthony and Cloud… Really like your comments: So far, I have not read ANY proper reason why Messi is better than Pele – not even one!
    I mean, ‘Pele faced easier defenders’? ‘Messi has “more skill” than Pele’? Really guys?

  • Blaugrana

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    Pele is off his med’s again. Pele was great but unfortunately his stats are greatly inflated by his own hand.
    I believe that Messi is and will be ONE of the greatest players to ever play the game. At 25 years old he has many years ahead to achieve that greatness.

  • Brad

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    Cause they’re blind and, in the words of an old friend, “prejudicial”. ’nuff said.

  • cloud

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    .. that is why many people are not so sold out with Messi becoz of his below par performance with Argentina.

    .. that’s why Messi won’t leave Barca coz he knows that he can’t survive without the help of Iniesta and Xavi.

    .. an equation would be very simple to construct with this arguement::

    pele = medals for club + medalsss for country

    messi = medals for BARCA ONLY + zero for country.

    .. having said that, why are people still defending messi ??

  • Anthony

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    Messi is a great player, And so is pele, pele is the better player because of his international ability, like cristiano Ronaldo is also better than messi because he also dominates at international level. Messi will be the best when he wins golden boot at world cup, Argentina win the world cup and messi dominates every game.

  • cloud

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    Who has won the World Cup when he was barely 18 years old and won it by scoring two goals in the finals ??? – PELE.

    That achievement alone, on one has yet to emulate. Not Zidane, nor R9.

    Messi ?? Only with Barca. And that’s it.

  • Brad

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    Thing is, Michael, he has far more stats in his favor , even when he was Messi’s age, than Messi does.

    That right there is where it’s at. The truth can sound ugly, and arrogant, but what Pele said. . . is true.

  • michael greene

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    It is bad enough for the rest of us to be discussing who was the best player ever. But when one of our candidates comes in public claiming that title, it is ridiculous. I always was a fan of Pele and watched him play many times both for Brazil and for his club Santos. But every time he opens his mouth he talks rubbish. Romario says that Pele while he keeps his mouth shut is like a beautiful orchestra !!!

  • Pure24

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    At Dan, so many tally’s… wikipedia says 541 League goals, and 1281 in toal. Way ahead of Messi – and he’s player of the century. I don’t need to put any onpinions on that!
    At Lilbad97, if you check what Pele said: “When Messi has scored 1,283 goals and won three World Cups, then we will talk.” We don’t know what the future holds… Messi may beat his record, he may not. But instead of guessing, we are talking about the present. And right now, Messi is way, way, WAY behind Pele

  • Guddy

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    @fence. Even if u include and double all d goals messi scored wen he was 1yr old, and the ones he scored in his dreams, it wuldn’t equal that of pele’s. Messi is not overated, bt wil definitely be only wen compared wit pele. Talkn abt futbal den n now, even if u ar given a ball with oponents of children at d ages of 8yrs, r u sure u culd score dat much like pele. Smtimez I wonda if dat record culd eva b broken, hw did he manage 2score dose?

  • lilbad97

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    klisen ur saying u cant compare time but really of the top of ur head name good defenders or goal keepers in peles time the messi`s`time they are different team is most important messi has it set with barca but hes got it set with argentina too they are set up nice compare to brazil back then no they arent close but u guys are talking bout stats how do u u have all of pele`s stats against messi`s stats if u havent noticed messi is only 25 and to add up the games hes played now every season and take the same seasone as pele messi is beter u guys say internatonal games are the most important pele was not alone peles never got the golden
    ball to say he was the best in his team brazil is just wrong cause not one year has he got more goals then his teamates therefore this discussion hes beter than hime can not be disscussed until messi retires because u cant compare a legend to a legend in the making im argentinian and yeah i think pele was great but just like messi they both need good teamates beside them

  • Bentley. Husbands

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    Pele is the best person to have ever played the game of soccer. Ball skill, speed. Scoring ability was great. The only way to stop him was to foul him or kick him out of a game. Messi is good, also Ronoldo just do not have the same ability. pele was winning world cups from a young age.

  • Brad

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    Fencer, we asked for facts, not such insufferable, opinionated insults. We’ve had plenty of those.

    Maradona was a druggie, cheating buffoon, and is far more narcissistic than you suggest Pele is.

    No one has 3 WC, besides Pele. As a matter of fact, Messi has only 1 WC goal to his name, in 8 matches. Pele has 12 in 13. And that was back in the days when only the bona fide teams, plus an outsider or two, made it to the biggest tournament of all. Much tougher than Messi has it today.

  • sagar silwal

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    [nepal besishahar] the argentinian superwave{messi}is the symbol of the good legend
    like pele who praised messi that their level n quality is equal

    ……messi is the 2nd form of pele

  • Fencer

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    Pele is THE MOST OVERATED PLAYER EVER. He says hes scored over 1000 goals yet this can not be verified as it probably includes when he was a 4 year old playing on the streets of Rio or wherever he’s from. He has never played in Europe and only won things for crappy Brazilian teams although the World Cups are fabulous achievements. I
    He is so deluded!!! He is not even top ten in my eyes! Platini,Cryuff,Muller,Beckenbaur,Riva,Baggio,Messi,Zidane, Gascoigne,Maldini to name just some who can profess to be the best ahead of that ridiculous self absorbed idiot! All of the above have won and played in major competitions. I include Gaza because he should of been rated up there. Not forgetting of ourse Puskas,Best,Moore but the GREATEST WITHOUT DOUBT IS DIEGO MARADONA, WITHOUT QUESTION!!! Nobody can possibly argue as the facts are all there. So please Pele just F##k O## you stupid OVERATED mental old man.

  • Dan

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    If you all don’t know, Pele’ scored only 760 official goals, other goals came from friendlies & army games. Messi had scored 296 official goals up to now & has almost 150 assists. When you talk about world cups it is better to talk about how many times they were the best player of the world cup. Pele’ was the best player only in 1970, Messi never was.

  • Pure24

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    Um… Yes actually, am left footed.
    At James, ‘every department’ is too huge for any one player… Can Messi play as goalkeeper?! Anyway, am moving to the side. Getting back to the topic, Messi is not better in the goals department. Seriously, how is Messi better at scoring goals?
    And how can someone score almost a thousand more goals and not be more skilled. Messi fans always use this excuse (about Messi scoring more goals than, say, Ronaldo), even when the goal-difference is four goals! But now it becomes a different story

  • Brad

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    Pure, I didn’t mean that part about Argentina as in his teammates there are pure crap, I meant that they’re not the same caliber as his teammates in Barca.

    Coincidentally, since you’re left-handed, are you also left footed like me? lol

  • James

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    Messi is the best player to step on a pitch, ! im talking about playing the game! exclude accolades, Messi is better in every department!

  • Pure24

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    Just before I say something (I’m already saying something by the way), let me remind you all – do you remember Ronaldinho?
    I do. I also remember how some people were saying that he was the greatest EVER! And that nobody will be greater than him – the same guys changed their minds three years ago!!!

    Brad
    I do not agree with you on one issue: Messi has magnificent playmates in Argentina – Its just like how Brazil, Netherlands or Germany is awesome, but all fell to Spain (technically, Spain weren’t the ones who took them all out). But you make an awesome point – wow, you are also left-handed? Sweet!
    Nthani doesn’t know what he is saying – he has never even watched Pele. Lane changes and step overs don’t make someone great. I bet you if Neymar continues to grow, people will say “HE IS THE GREATEST EVER”. Look at it from many angles, not just a single match… And those of you making promises, just don’t. WE DON’T KNOW if Messi will beat Pele – right now, he’s way behind. Way, way behind. I mean, Arsenal claim they’ll win the league EVERY SEASON!!!
    PS: I forgot – Messi doesn’t rally do step overs!

  • Brad

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    NthaniRolex, you told Pure24, (btw, Pure, I’m also left-handed) “not to get ahead” of himself. But then you got ahead of your own self.

    The European Champions League is the best competition there is in the world. . . at club level. Barcalona is the world’s best club team right now for sure, and even I think they could already be the best club team of all time.

    Here’s the catch, Nthani:

    You stated Pele didn’t win the # WC’s by himself, and that he was fortunate to be in a golden generation. That is redundant, and has been for a long time; had you done any reading, you’d have discovered a telling counter-argument that me and several others have seen that Messi has the SAME advantage with Barcalona. However, at national team level, Pele played in a time when only 16 teams could qualify for the WC. This means that only the truly bona fide competition, plus a handful of smaller teams, would play at the tournament. Not so today, 32 teams qualify, and Messi just happened to have played in 2 WCs, with only 1 goal in 8 matches to his name. If I’m correct, any time he played against those bona fides, he didn’t do as good as we expect. Messi has the misfortune of not having teammates at Argentina as he does with Barca, but surely, if he was the greatest of all time, that wouldn’t matter, right?

    While Pele is fairly rude with his comments, it must be noted that the facts can be rude in themselves!! Of course, the number of goals Pele scored (approx. 1280, always hear different accounts of what the precise tally is) and 3 World Cups will be hard to draw level with, let alone beat, even for Messi!!! Messi is the best player in the world today, but not all time.. . though he can change that, he has the chance.

  • Oybek

    0 0

    Pele cements he was great in the past and unilaterally projects Neymar will be great in the future. It would be fair of him if he at least admitted that Messi is unmatched today. After all, he know better and more than most people about football. While his forecast about no one beating him in the future is quite inconsiderate, he may be right in that like every other field, football has advanced too much and become too competitive for players to repeat his records. When Messi broke Cruff’s record last season, he embraced his achievement by famously admitting ” the records are set to be broken”, for which he deserves all the respect.

  • NthaniRolex

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    Whoa hold on a second @Pure24!! dont get ahead of yourself, Messi is unbelievable! we should also consider the champions league ‘coz well according to Sir Alex and Jose its prbbly better than the WC! Pele ddnt win those three WC alone, he was just fortunate to be in a generation full of amazing players, argentina lackzz the coach, buh they hv the ability to b better than the samba king….. Messi is better in termzz of skill, agility, and just plain magic!!!!!! So please get your factzz in order!!

  • Pure24

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    Just so we are clear, Messi and Pele played in different times.
    I can bet my left hand (I’m left handed) any day that everyone here has watched Messi more than Pele. And the only thing there is of Pele are YouTube videos, bits and pieces of matches played and some ESPN Classic matches displayed on TV. Maybe some DVD or VCR of the guy. Based on that you will definitely see more of Messi’s skill than Pele’s. But just becoz you don’t see it doesn’t mean its not there.
    Just in Spain, Messi is yet to have: most career league goals (he’s ranked twelve, by the way), most away goals in a season, most league matches scored in, Cristiano Ronaldo scored against every team last season – which Messi is yet to do, fastest 100 league goals (Too late am afraid – C. Ronaldo has that one)… And its pointless to go on

    PS: As a side-note, spell-check is underlining Messi and Ronaldo (in Red) to correct 4 the spelling, but (maybe I’m colour blind) nothing for Pele!!!

  • Brad

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    Your putting U-20 and Olympic championships- both youth tournaments- against 3 full World Championships right there. Not a fair fight, but seeing as Messi hasn’t even reached a WC semi. . .

    Also, there’s an error on Messi’s goal count for Argentina. Somewhere around 25, I think.

    Still, Pele’s still superior, particularly at national level, where it counts the most.

  • Wiz

    0 0

    Pele won 3 worldcup trophees (1958, 1962, 1970) ’58 he received the silver ball, ’62 he played 2 matches n got injurd, ’70 he received the golden ball. No golden shoe. He scored around 1200 goal which includes 77 goals scored for brazil. His clubs were santos, brazil n newyork cosmos, usa.
    Messi won 2005 under 20 world cup n 2008 olympic, on both occasions he received both the golden ball n golden shoe. Messi scored around 300 goals up to now, 19 goals for the national team. Great number of assists. Messi received 3 golden ball, player of the year awords & 2 times came in 2nd with the silver ball. Club; barcelona, spain.

  • Brad

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    So I’m guessing Ronaldo (Brazil) only won 1 WC really? Mikhail, you actually used sense, unlike so many other people (THANK YOU) but you still missed one bit, and that is non-playing members of each championship-winning side were awarded WC medals too, by FIFA, just a few years ago.

  • Mikhail

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    Pele scored about 670 goals in OFFICIAL matches… messi will can still catch that… he’s been improving his goals every season and entering his prime he can easily rock 300 goals in the next 4 seasons. As for pele he won 2 world cups really… Both played with great teammates… But deciding factor skill level rose significantly in modern game football is more popular and there are a lot of professionals. Pele would be a star player but not super star player imo.

  • Brad

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    Wow. That beats anything and everything I said, pure24. But you know some idiot is going to continue the bigotry.

  • pure24

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    @ Akinsehinwa, Pele has every right to defend himself… Its his success. Who would stand back and just let others say u r no good wen u clearly enjoyed the most success. And anyway, whichever side you take, you are mostly speaking from a biased point of view. But the fact ARE the facts.

    Personally, I am yet to find out how a successful person can be better than someone who has more than three times his success! Someone please, without all this easy-league-good-teammates-wacky-defenders rubbish, answer that. Soccer is soccer… 1902 or 2012

  • Akinsehinwa Solomon Sola

    0 0

    It is not right for Pele to ALWAYS challenge Messi. Pele must allow people to decide who is who in the FOOTBALL HISTORY, not DEFENDING himself!

  • Brad

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    @ Q. Villa, fair point, but that’s a “what if” thing that ain’t gonna happen. Football isn’t just about individual play, it’s about team play, too, and about working together to win trophies.

    In that case, Messi should have the advantage at club level, I don’t know. . . but at national team level, he hasn’t won a single trophy. And yet he’s being compared to Pele, who is the only person to have won 3 WC. And any nonsense about Pele’s teammates for Brazil is redundant, as Messi has the same support at Barca.

  • Q.Villa

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    Just curious….. If Messi was to be a spain international and with the spanish achievments so far, will you consider as the best over Pele? Personally….. if we cast out the worldcup trophies and rate them both based on individual play, i think Messi have edge over great Pele. What ya’ll think?

  • Soccer Punch

    0 0

    oh man.. you cant compare two people from different time/era, it’s like comparing Lebron James to Michael Jordan.. aight? so stop arguing about who’s the greatest footballer of all time. this thing will not end if you continue comparing the two.

  • Dxpat

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    @marcos. I totally disagree with you. Right now messi’s only competitor is C.Ronaldo, and messi is way ahead of him. U can’t compare his time as champion to d time of Zidane, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo when there were talents fightin 4 d Ballon award. Today its jst Messi n Ronaldo n it rlly sucks!

  • Brad

    0 0

    3 World Cups> 1 World Cup> 0 World Cups.
    3 World Cup Final Match Goals> 0 for both Maradona AND Messi, the latter not even reaching the final by the age that Pele had already won TWO Championships. And don’t give me crap about Pele’s teammates, that’s just exactly where Messi gets his ammunition at club level: his teammates. Haven’t you noticed that Leo’s stats for the Albiceleste are far less impressive than his club records? Or, for that matter, Pele’s records for BOTH club AND country.
    Even Maradona’s stats aren’t as impressive.

  • Allan

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    As compare to those times Maradona is better than Pele. Pele is just a striker not a playmaker. A striker to score Goals, but as Pele said abt Messi he is wrong, he’s a playmaker n yet he score many goals.

  • Pure24

    0 0

    Thanks Brad!!!
    Its good to think facts… When did one-sided victory become the best victory? You make a good point…

  • NIGEL TABB EXETER ST PLYMOUTH

    0 0

    both i meant lol

  • NIGEL TABB EXETER ST PLYMOUTH

    0 0

    Pele or Lional well to be honest Diago Maradonna was better than bith of them.

  • Brad

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    Thank you, Jackman. Nicely phrased. and you, too, Pure24.

  • Jackman

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    When u compare Ronaldo and Messi, you don’t say Real Madrid has less skilled players than Barca or Ronaldo can shoot better from huge distance, cross killer balls and take deadly freekicks as conpared to Messi. U say Messi broke records, and scored more goals. Why should you say different today – “Pele faced ‘easier’ defenders!!!”
    Who are you to judge skill and think your opinion will be accepted by everyone?!
    Fancy footwork, perfect balance and excellent ball control is all fine, but so is sprint speed, power, dribbling, stamina and vision.
    Pele might be a lousy old jealous fool (and I think he is), but that does not make him any less of a player and I’m sorry but, he is way, way better than Messi whether u argue or not. The facts are not biased. Humans are

  • Pure24

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    Guys!
    Eish, don’t let opinion get the better of you bcoz nobody will convince anybody. Then everybody will start fighting until somebody gets hurt…
    Firstly, never compare footballing times. Who’s to say it was ‘easier’ that time than this time? Only the memories of glorious events remain so its unfair to compare a few clips of one legend (yes, Pele is a legend – deal with it!) with all the might of the current superhero.
    Secondly, facts are facts. Ronaldo won the La Liga, but Messi bagged more goals – and hence he was a better soccer ‘striker’. However, Ronaldo was a more successful soccer ‘player’ in terms of league achievement…
    Lastly, the situations are different. Pele’s tally is up to retirement. Therefore, Messi will only be less than him if he retires with less goals and World Cup final trophies. But if you can’t wait, then just face the current facts, regardless of the personal feeling. Swallow your pride and admit it – Pele is a better ‘striker’ and ‘player’… Both on goal tallies and Soccer achievements (and don’t you go bringing the Champions League; because of the different regions they played in, only the World Cup counts).

  • Arif

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    Pele is not aware of the reality. He talks whatever he likes-logical or illogical. Messi is someone who play alone to make difference while pele used to with mamy other to make the difference.So pele cannot be compared with Messi.

  • Brad

    0 0

    Hey, Marcos, how about some facts, the opinion you gave is nothing new.

  • Marcos........ (Egede)

    0 0

    Messi is just d best n dat is d truet.

  • Marcos........ (Egede)

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    Lionel Messi is d greatest footballer ever in worldof football. Not Pele or Maradona, bcos in time of Pele n Maradona der was no one to compear den on d pitch, why in d time of Lionel Messi we have much to compear him n yet he’s much more better den all of dem. Highly better dan dem all. I guse Pele is jelous over he’s Magic wit d ball on his left foot as if it belongs to him alone,’ we have Ronaldinho,C Ronaldo,Iniesta,Kaka n many more but der ar not of his level, he’s much more n highly d best of all. Pele should go have sit he is nobody compear to Messi.

  • Brad

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    Oh hey, Franco. I have no clue where Cloud and Russ are. . .

    By the way, I didn’t even notice how much has happened here. . . bunch of people comment and I comment back.

  • Franco11

    0 0

    dd u miss me in ur arguments gents i see brad u still stand firm.wers russ ru and clouds opinions

  • Nigel Tabb Exeter

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    Pele played well for his country Messi has disapointed while playing for argentina

  • Brad

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    @Tim, I know that, which is why I’ve compared how Messi plays for Barca to how Pele played for Brazil. The difference between the two is that Pele won major titles for both club and country.

    You have to have teammates who are talented too. You can’t just have guys who are average joes when compared to that one player who is viewed as the best in the world. That’s basically how it is with Argentina, even with those heavy hitters they have, Messi still needs better.

  • mudassir ali

    0 0

    well,well,well.as far as the best player is concerned they both are average.the best player who can even dribble against aliens is me MUDASSIR ALI .there you go.

  • J

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    I give my props to the great pele. But seriously this guy is the only one who still actually believes he is the best footballer of all time. And well that just isnt true. Messi although i am a big fan he still needs to win the world cup for him to become the best footballer in the history of the sport. BUT dont underestimate Messi cause you never know he might just take the world cup in peles home country. But as far as the greatest footballer of all time that honor i have to say goes to … MARADONA!!!

  • Hector

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    Here is the question??? Is a champions league level better or the same as a world cup??? If it’s better or the same shouldn’t that be credited as a world cup championship?? Now… Who is the best!! Messi or Pele??

  • SamEdwards

    0 0

    Messi not up to Pele yet? Ok we will give him that. But there never being another Pele? Out of the question. Messi is only 25

  • Bunts

    0 0

    Hi everyone,
    Football is not a one man game, but 1 man can make all the difference. I have seen numerous games of mr messi and mr pele. Probably to early to decide ,however I would like to say with out prejudice pele much, much better in the air, probably a more complete athlete , and what he used to do with inferior boots and balls was just out standing, and I would put maradona ahead of messi at this stage anyway. Pele and Messi both divinely blessed that’s for sure, Maradona probably blessed too , but from the other guy.

  • B

    0 0

    It doesn’t matter who had the better team mates because players are judged with statistics, with world cups being the best one to have next to your name, Pele had three i believe, messi zero. History will only remember the numbers, like goals scored, games played and big trophies eg. world cups.Messi is the best player of this generation but not of all time although he still has a chance to attain that title. I do also think that the styles of the era’s in which players play/ed are totally different, red card tackles nowadays would be a perfectly normal tackles back then. So there is not as much time for the player to think about how he will get round the defender. Today there is more time to think because tackles are more controlled and not flying at your knees. I tried not to be biased. But i find it hard to compare because of how different the stlye of football is between the two era’s.

  • robert atwiine

    0 0

    yes…

  • gree282

    0 0

    Pele had a spe tacular team around him for every world cup. All the players excelled in their positions. All mess I has is te ez andaguero. The teams are not equal at all therefore world cups cannot be used to compare these players… the champions league is more competitive anyway. Mess I

  • Tim

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    BRAD– I’m not saying that messi is he best ever, but if you compare messi’s teammates on Argentina to pele’s from brazil you should be able to agree that the Brazilian team had a lot more quality than messi has for help in comparison.

  • Brad

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    Jeez, I shouldn’t have stopped reading!

    Craig J, Point One, Pele won 3, not 2. Point Two, if you want to downgrade Pele’s achievements for Brazil, then you must downgrade Messi’s for Barca. So don’t rate them on just what they do at one level, rate them on BOTH. Pele still played spectacularly for Santos, even though he didn’t have the exact same teammates (or ones of the same caliber) as he did with Brazil.

    Tell me, someone, ANYONE, if Messi truly is the best ever, how is it he only has the meaningfully spectacular performances at Barca, but only occasionally for Argentina will he put in a spectacular performance? And yet, people think he’s better than Pele who did it for both club AND country?

  • Brad

    0 0

    Also, Z, I love that comment.

  • Brad

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    Oops. messed up right there. . . -.-

    Ryan, the thing is, people like to trash Pele and say Messi is the best ever. How that is when he typically only performs at club level, but not at international level. Sure he got a hat trick recently in a friendly against Brazil, but it was a friendly. Much like how quite a few of Pele’s goals were, but only Pele gets criticized for it.

    Exactly how you can compare Messi to Pele favorably is beyond me. Pele has 3 WCs. He performed at club AND international levels. Messi has yet to have won a senior level WC (someone mentioned U-21 WC win earlier, as if that helps Messi against 3 senior WC wins) and normally doesn’t perform for Argentina like he does for Barca. That means he’s still lacking the international level standout.

    Pele is still the best ever, regardless of how arrogant (not to mention, repetitive, which makes it annoying even for me) he sounds. Messi still has a chance of beating him and becoming the best player ever, but he hasn’t even reached the semis of the WC, let alone won that competition.

  • Brad

    0 0

    The

  • mandla

    0 0

    Having read all the articles about messi and pele am yet to get a response from messi! am sure he is so humbled by the whole comparison thing but what has he to say!! please assist me with information to that regard if any!!

  • Bill Gardner

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    I’ve seen Pele and Messi in person, they are or were both fantastic. Pele reinvented football in an era when it was all longballs and defending, Messi is a great scorer but until he dominates on the International Level he cannot be compared to the greatest of all time. When Pele played the chances in Europe were not there for foreign players and the best teams in the World were the Brazilian ones. The game is different now, no more back passes to the keepers hands, what was an acceptable challenge in the 60’s would get a straight red today. The question is would Pele if he were 25 today be as great, I say he would be better as he would have more time and space and less injuries, Messi on the other hand would have a harder time going back in time and playing old school football but he could do it just now that all the rule changes have made the game more open and more stylish, and far less demanding.

  • ryan

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    Pele needs to get over himself. Yes he was an incredible player, but he can never say anything positive about messi without talking about how great he himself is. Pele we love you but get over yourself man your time is over. Move aside for the new generation’s talent.

  • craig j

    0 0

    pele even sorry

  • craig j

    0 0

    How the hell can u say pelle is better because of two world cups ? he had an imense team behind him and a top manager thats a cup that a team wins not a player. so please dont rate these players on world cups rate them on assists goals and minutes played END OF!

  • tage

    0 0

    1. maradona.
    2. messi.
    3. ronaldo.
    4. pele.

  • shop

    0 0

    Comparing Pele nd Messi,i tink it wasn’t right.Pele is a legend we all knw,bt pele has gone he is not coming back to show skills in the picth,Messi is stil playin nd he is doing his best.Lets just wait till the end of Messi’s carrier.If he take it to the highest level which Pele has done i think he will beat Pele without any doubt.For nw Pele is stil the greastest of all.

  • Z

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    messi is amazing but when it comes to records and world cups pele has the edge over messi.

    although pele played in the brazilian league he still had to put the ball in the back of the net

    messi is my alltime favourite player even though pele has the edge over him

    give meessi till the end of his carrea to get the accomplishments that pele lrft. i think messi can surpass pele but give him time to do so

    MMMMMMMMEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSIIIIIIIIIII

  • Tim

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    Ok, I’ll be the one to say it. The fact of the matter is that messi is he present while pele has only got memories of the past. Why he and maradona continue to rave about something just as controversial as politics is beyond me. The sad thing is that football or soccer or whatever you call it is supposed to be the “beautiful game”; what pele does is almost a crime by tarnishing it with a debate that can’t and never will be solved. It can be proven that pele and maradona are this way just by the coincidence that neither player are in any version of FIFA because who knows how much controversy would erupt if one was rated any more highly than the other.

  • pure24

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    Thing you should know is that there is no such thing as ‘best player’… That is why the Ballon d’Or is the award for ‘player of the year’. Even goalkeepers have made invaluable contribution to the beautiful game.
    Messi is very good. No, he is amazing – but look up soccer and read what the sport is all about. U will not see ‘dribbling’, or ‘ball control’. Soccer is ‘trying to put the ball in the back of the opposition’s net while stopping them from doing the same’.
    Legends are legends whether you like it, believe it, want it or not…
    Its like the way Brazil are still the ultimate team because of their world cup record. The biggest sport event in the world. The ultimate test for the soccer player; doing it for your country, and not the organization with enough money to buy talent. You win that, and – like it or not – you will be legend

  • Rick

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    What a stupid topic of discussion.. messi isn`t elligible to become a participant if d comparision is wid ronaldo(brazil).. & pele? I haven`t wached too many videos of him.. his records denote what is he.. not a matter of joke to play d world cup for 5times in d 1st squad… he didn’t need drugs like maradona .. even he denied d opportinity of europe..& messi?? Barcelona since 15yrs.. giving arguments of health prblms… messi is a legend indeed..bt nt infront of ronaldo(brazil) 1st of all.. messi wasn`t famous at d age of 19 like neymar…all d messi fans must know actions speaks louder dan words..

  • christina@772

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    hiii……..@nick u hv made a exact point…..luv u cr7..!!in ma point of veiw he is ma oltme best plyer eva…..coz he’s got evrythng…money,luks,talent,phycl,.dnt no d world wats gossing bout hm bt i truely luv cr7….

  • rossi

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    bcoz……!!maxmum of fans luv barca…..!!as we knw det messi ply wel in barca excpt country matchs… dets y messi hv won 3 ballon’dor…..!!!if we judge wel messi vs cr7….messi may b awy from cr7 in league bt cr7 hv plyd lot lot mre den…messi both clubs n country mtchs….if we count wen cr7 in man.utd…!!personaly cr7 u hv provd urslf u hv a capacity to ply in any clubs…!!!bt i dnt think messi wld able to do that…

  • joe

    0 0

    Pele is definitely not the best there are many players better than him his record means nothing as he hardly played in a competitive tough match its like putting messi up against accrington stanley every week maybe messi might not be the best ever but it isn’t a debate between who is better out of messi and pele and although world cups are important i can judge messi by his champions league performances

  • bator

    0 0

    Messi is the best player in the rorld. Because if messi wasnt the best he couldent win the ballon dor or the golden ball.
    And he became the first player to score 5 goals in the uefa champions 6teams.
    cr7 has a long way to catch up to messi and he is old as some of my friends say he is 28 years old and retire earlier then messi.
    he is the best and will score 4000 goals and break pele”s record.

  • nick

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    im sorry to every messi fan but messi still has to be better than cr7 and the brazilian ronaldo and former teammate ronaldhino and he will never be like pele and no one else in the world will idc if its pele’s son

  • Tony Hibbert

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    I don’t see why you are all saying Pele played ‘amateurs’ as the only thing that really matters is that he still had to put the ball in the back of the net.
    Pele had done it more times than Messi has at WC’s leading to his three medals, therefore he is and will be for many years, better than Messi.

  • rossi

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    i apreciate with nanu’s points…!!itz honourd to b parts in evn team sqaud hu won d w.c cup….so i think its gnna b vry2 tough to brke pele.’s record…!!he grtst legend evr knw….bt messi has a chance to bRke his record.

  • nanu

    0 0

    hee….hee…!!wat a stupid fellow jani…..do u hv sme sense!!d way u talk bout pele…it seems like he z nthng just a monkey……i want 2 say det plz cntrol ua emtns n blndnss amng messi k…..!!i agreed that nw messi iz eligible to compte wid pele’s record….!!bt we ol knws det evn messi hmslf agreed that ol time greatst plyr evr iz pele….!!!!n so dets y messi is tryng 2 brke his record. so do knw d meaning of w.c…!!just emagine hw big tournamnt is it.,theres no need to explain bout it…..bt messi has nt 1 yet so far…..lets c wats gnna b hppn in future lets wait watch…..!!!!so i hv 2 said that still pele’s d no.1 legend….!!

  • Qosta

    0 0

    They r bth great at their tyms…n after some tym they will all both be history

  • joe

    0 0

    Jani is very right Pele and Ronaldo lack what great players should have being a team player not caring bout yourself but about the team messi creates and scores so many goals without being selfish provides it in the big games and broke into a team with henry, eto’o and ronaldinho and brad your argument is stupid because world cups are won by team meaning pele was in a better team not meaning he was one of the best players you could have stuck heskey in that 1970 brazil team and they would have won. Messi has smashed records and one individual prizes in a tougher era ive watched videos of pele play and in the 21st century he would be an average player ronaldo (brazil) was much better than him and played in a much tougher club league end of convo

  • peter

    0 0

    messi has won under-21 worldcup,d olympic gold,three champions league,three ballon d ‘o nd 5 spanish league nd goals to colour his achievement to me pele is just being jealous abt messi

  • Sam

    0 0

    Jani you are a fanny u cannot say pele is run and shoot he is the standard of the greatest player of all time that messi should be aiming to achieve yes messi is great at club level but with international he is pretty shit didn’t score a goal in the last world cup so he has a long way before Hes winning 1 because argentinas team is nowere near good to win it and Spain are the only team to replicate the brazzilians back in the day

  • Brad

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    How is it that “run+shoot=Pele” when really that should be “run+shoot=Messi”?

    Jani, you’re an idiot. You’re just another one of those just for the moment fans. . . and that’s useless.

    Messi may have more player of the year awards, but that’s nothing compared to winning the World Cup. Messi still hasn’t done that. Pele’s done it 3 times.

    Stop being so opinionated and go through the facts. You’re allowing yourself to be blinded like that, and you have the temerity to say that football was blind? You sound like a certain guy called Don. . . .

  • JANI

    0 0

    PELE WAS FANTASTIC WHEN FOOTBALL WAS BLIND. ALL HE HAD WAS JUST SPEED AND SHOT WITH NO BALL CONTROL WHICH IS NOT A QUALITY OF A GOOD PLAYER. I WATCH OLD GAMES OF PELE: RUN + SHOOT = PELE. HE WAS THE ONLY ONE WHO COULD RUN, NO SENSE, CAN’T CALCULATE. A PLAYER WITH SUCH A QUALITY CAN NOT MAKE A FIRST TEAM IN THE WORLD OF FOOTBALL TODAY.

    I THINK HE HATES MESSI BECAUSE HE IS ONLY JEALOUS OF MESSI. SEEING A MAGICAL MAN ON THE FOOTBALL PITCH, DISPLAYING GREAT DRIBBLING SKILLS MAKES HIM GO MAD. HE WAS NEVER FANTASTIC. MESSI IS A MAN THAT HAS ALL THE QUALITIES OF A GREAT PLAYER. HE HAS EVERYTHING EXCEPT SHOOTING POWER WHICH I DON’T THINK IS AN ADVANTAGE RONALDO EVEN HAS OVER HIM BECAUSE SHOOTING POWER MAKES RONALDO A SELFISH PLAYER LIKE PELE, WHEN MESSI OVERCOMES THAT USING HIS OUTSTANDING DRIBBLING TECHNIQUES.

    PELE IS AFRAID THAT MESSI WOULD BREAK HIS RECORD. MESSI HAS BROKEN MANY RECORDS AND HAS TREMENDOUS EDGE OVER PELE. A HUMAN FROM ABOVE STARTED WINNING WORLD BEST PLAYER AT A TENDER AGE AND IS STILL OUTSTANDING PLAYING LIKE A VERY EXPERIENCED OLD PLAYER WHEN AN UNEXPERIENCED OLD PELE STARTED AT AN OLD AGE. MESSI WILL STILL BREAK THAT HIS USELESS RECORD.

  • Brad

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    Indeed, and that’s the problem. As good as Messi is, particularly at club level, WC trophies are the ultimate determinate in a player’s career. Also, I don’t think we can help that Pele got injured. Much the same if Messi gets injured in Brazil 2014, and Argentina wins the tourney. . . . but that’s a “what if” thing, no point going there unless it really happens. Then he’d be just like Pele in 62. But when we talk about where Pele wasn’t injured, in 58 and 70, he played as the focal point for a superstar heavy team, much like how Messi is for Barca.

  • James

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    you have a fair point, but what makes me drawn to this debate is that the poor quality of football during Pele’s era, watching clips of him at Santos and playing for Brazil just seemed like he was playing amateurs, maybe Pele was way ahead of his time and maybe you can take into account of evolution and how technology, equipment, coaches, and money has made the game in the 21st century more technical and more experienced. a harder platform to make that impact, there are glimpses of Messi being the complete footballer and it obvious how good he is whilst you watch on television,

    this ‘but he has no WC’s’ debate will go on, Pele only helped win 2 he was injured for one of them, if Argentina suddenly have a team as dominate as those Brazilians back then they could have a chance but you dont see that happening.

  • Brad

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    Thing is, James, there’s no such thing as time travel, so no point in thinking about who’s quality would be better or worse in what era!!!

    But if you insist, Pele would do that. That’s honest. But the same goes for Messi, though in a different fashion.

    The reason why is that, while Messi wouldn’t be up against really good defenders, the defenders he would face would have license to perform knee surgery on him just as much as if they were playing Pele or Maradona. Those two legends right there took a real beating in pretty much every match. Now, Messi doesn’t get that. Why? Because physicality is frowned upon more nowadays, particularly in La Liga (I’ve said this stuff before, I believe). Defenders can’t just dive in and try to break his leg, so they have to hold themselves back. Thing is, that gives Messi the chance to blow past them and leave them for dead. So defenders are caught between a rock and a hard place. In Pele and Maradona’s days, that only happened if they got caught fouling. And yet the physicality of those old days meant that they didn’t get caught so much.

    Pele has praised Messi. He said it in this article. But even if you get technical about the friendly statistics (if you’d like, we can start including Messi’s statistics in friendlies) not counting, there’s still the thing about 3 World Cups. . . unless you truly are biased, which many people who’ve commented here are, you can’t rule that out, particularly when you include that Pele won 2 by the age Messi is now. And somehow, Messi doesn’t even have 1 WC.

  • James

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    I believe Pele wouldn’t be able to produce the quality he had in today’s game! he played for Santos his whole footballer career pretty much and back then the Brazilians could afford to try him out at the age of 17+, i don’t think the Argentine squads of recent tournaments have helped Messi, and this debate will keep on going on and on, Pele’s friendly game goals were added to his statistics so that it self isn’t a fair debate, i adore messi and pele but think messi is better when having watched both play! I’m not biased, my fav players are honda, ibra, ronaldo, nedved, zidane and so on Pele also said Neymar is as good as Messi, maybe Pele is threatened by Messi’s amzing talent and that he dosn’t gloat about it! Pele just needs to let everything get on and adore the Messi show of this Era, yes pele is a legend and now its Messi’s turn.

  • Brad

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    Prince, it doesn’t mean he’s already so much as drawn level with Pele, let alone beaten him. He’s earned his spot as a legend, but it’s too early to say he’s the best ever, and anyone who says he is. .. well, they’re a dumb one.

  • Brad

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    THANK YOU, Grayson. finally, someone besides me and Cloud has sense in them.

  • Prince adeyemo

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    Grad, i always cherish ur comments concerning messi,some people hate messi bcos they think age has anything to do wt achievement, leo is excel in football history

  • christian+2347032132745

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    No doubt Messi is a great player. He is still young and he has all the qualities to take him to the top. When it comes to achievements i believe Pele is ahead. This will be a wrong time to compare both soccer legends. Let us all wait till the end of Messi’s career then we will have a clearer picture. Remember that many players started so well but ended their career in a shameful way. Players don’t make names for themselves only on the pitch but also off the pitch. Let us all enjoy the beautiful game and not fight over it.

  • Grayson

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    Brad got it right, you’d be a naive fan of the game to think the best dribbler in the world now is all of a sudden the best ever. Achievements is what makes the grade in any ‘best of the best’ decision.
    Messi might have the edge at club level but Pele surpasses all at national level…and cut the crap about whose teammates are better, that is total hogwash…all these players have excellent teammates without them you can win nothing. No one man team exists and ever will – that’s why CR hasnt won a world cup yet and same goes for Messi. Its that simple lads.

  • Brad

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    sorry but Messi still hasn’t played in a WC final, Pele played in- and won- 2 finals, and scored in both!!! sorry aaron, but Messi hasn’t surpassed Pele yet, hasn’t even drawn level, get over it!!!!!!

  • aaron

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    a huge majority of pele’s goals were scored in friendlies against extremely inferior teams and players. look at a breakdown of his goals scored. sorry old man messi has already surpassed you. get over it!!!!!!!!

  • adrin

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    Pele still the greatest messi hasnt got to the highs of pele no matter what people think or want to think we will see in ten to fifteen years

  • Fuck Gaynaldo

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    May b all d football fans should know that football isn’t 1man game . Pele dont bark Ur time is gone . U r d worst legend whom i never wanna remember n i never watched ur game .man of black in white era .

  • Brad

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    Mardon, neither you nor haokip have read all my posts. Multiple times I have stated that Pele did depend on Garrincha, Didi, and Zagallo. Those 3 provided ammunition for Pele to score goals on. And the same is so for Messi with his teammates at Barcalona.

    So you can’t say I’m blinded by Pele’s fantastic skills. Neither have I been blinded by Messi’s. To say that Pele would have not have achieved anything, however, is bullshit, and the same is so for Messi. Here’s what’s certain: both wouldn’t have achieved as much as they have if it weren’t for teammates.

    I’ve said this stuff before. No offense, Mardon, as you actually have provided a consistent argument that is actually good, but you sounded just like Haokip and ALL the other Messi fans here: broken records. The reason why I hit on the same things is that every Messi fan hits on the same things. And most of them don’t even provide a good argument, if they even come back to argue at all. Maybe you guys should go back and read every single post that me, Cloud, and Russ Ru have made. We’ve made all remarks by Messi fans redundant. This hasn’t been any different.

  • Haokip

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    All of you pele fans have constantly credited messi’s success on xavi,iniesta etc..but fail to mention that pele was also surrounded by players like garrincha,didi,zagallo,nilton santos etc…and without all these players pele would not have achieve anything

  • Mardon

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    Brad,

    Couldn’t it be that Pele was aslo lucky to have players like Xavi and Iniesta in his team both club and national? Why would you keep attributing their successes solely to Pele?

    Considering that back then football was not as commercialized as it is today, Pele and his national team may have been lucky not to have to compete against teams form europe that were not as full of world class players as they are today.

    It may be that Argentina was not able to prirotize their team’s success in different cups over the past years thanks to their economic problems. Why would you expect Messi to be responsible for the failure of the whole national team?

  • Brad

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    But that’s a “what if?” idea, Haokip, something you seem very good at, and what I personally don’t like going into myself. Take Messi, by himself, and put him in Brazil league, and his goal scoring records will go up, but the twice as much part will require having Xavi and Iniesta with him, I’d say. After all, they’ve done a lot to help him score the number of goals he has with Barca.

    For the record, I knew you were making a point about the level of football TODAY. but what about back then? Defense, as I’ve said earlier, wasn’t as vital back then, particularly in South America, but even in the Latin nations, what defenders that actually existed were given the freedom to hack the opposing side’s star player into pieces. Messi would take just as much, if not worse, of a battering as Pele did.

    Now back to the real deal, and not stupid ‘what if”s. . .

    In Pele’s day, Santos was for a time the best club in the world, and Pele was the best player of the time (AND OF COURSE ALL TIME). They won not 1 but 2 Club World Cups, and I believe both came before Pele turned 24, just like with the actual World Championships.

    Likewise, today, Barca is the best club in the world, with Messi as the best player in the world today (but NOT BEST ALL TIME. . at least not yet). Messi has won 2 Club World Cups by age 24, but he has failed to even get past the quarterfinals of the World Cup knockout stages, let alone win the World Cup.

    So there, Messi has still fallen short of Pele.

    Pele and Maradona both performed at both club and international level. Messi still hasn’t performed meaningfully at international level.

  • Haokip

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    Did i ever say that pele played in that club wc final. I was just making a point in order to compare the level of football between europe and brazil to show you that messi would score twice as much if he play in brazil

  • KazWorld

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    YES Messi is the best but not the best ever aka (greatest). I will always say a complite player should perform good both at club-level and internatinal-level.
    Nevertheless Messi and Ronaldo still have a chace to be the greatest… but as it stands.

    1. Maradona
    2. Pele
    3. Zidane
    4. Messi
    5. C.Ronaldo

    Brad & Cluod are talking with convincing points, some of you are just taliking from without…

  • Brad

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    bblawal, how can he be the best in history if Pele had two World Championships by the time he was the age Messi is now?

    Say what you like, even Messi isn’t even better than Maradona. So that means Messi can’t even be equal to Pele.

    Where’s someone who doesn’t give us the same arguments, and still no facts?

  • Haokip

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    Say what you like pele you are not even better than maradona

  • bblawal

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    look at what ds old monkey is sayn, didn u look at messi record wt ds small age of him. he is not d same wt u. messi is world number one in history.

  • Brad

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    Okay, Irnes, you think that Pele was afraid? Maybe, maybe not, but even if he did want to (which he probably did, he attracted a lot of interest from Manchester United and Real Madrid) Pele never would’ve been able to:

    Brazil named him a “national treasure”. This barred Pele from leaving Brazil.

    And the Club World Cup thing, Haokip. I don’t know if you noticed or not, but that was Neymar, not Pele.

    About the Brazilian League, I’d say that Messi would be able to score that many goals today, but imagine putting him in Pele’s day (I know this is a “what if?” scenario, but it’d make sense). Of course, defense would not be so tight, but the defenders that existed then were given an incredible amount of license to perform knee surgery upon any opponent who dared step onto the field. It’s amazing that Pele didn’t get a career-ending injury, so it’d be amazing if Messi didn’t either.

  • OLA nyc

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    Messi can never be Pele because Messi does not have Garrincha to carry him to glory he will later claim all to himself!

  • Haokip

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    You are right irnes…..just see how barca had beaten sao paolo 5-0 in the club wc last time

  • Steven

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    Pele never did it in the Champions League so cant be considered one of the world’s best.

  • Irnes

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    If messi played in the Brazilian League, he would score 80-90 goals per season. He would have 500 by now, and he would break his record easily by the time hes 32. Pele was afraid to play in Europe!!

  • Brad

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    That right there was way too far, pacman. Messi’s the best in the world right now. But he’s not the best all time. Pele is. But that doesn’t mean that Messi sucks.

  • pacman

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    pele is so damn great when he play for prison team along with sly..can messi do that..?NO..messi just suck..!

  • Brad

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    It is Pele’s international career we should be comparing Messi’s to. Not Ronaldo, has he has had the same amount of silverware for country as Messi has: none.

  • Oybek

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    Mr Analyze This,
    “Seriously guys and gals, you can have and voice your opinions about the players, but why must you make personal attacks and insult the players (in particular immature Messi fans)”

    Should I read your statement above that it is ok to insult football fans? If you claim to be objective, at least try to do that! Your insulting Messi fans and favoring CR7 vividly suggest that you are antibarca. So you trying to defend the veteran Pele is your implicit way of attacking Barca and Messi. You probably never care about Pele.

    Messi’s relatively unsuccessful international form cannot be basis for you claiming he is inferior to CR7. What has CR7 achieved as a part of Portugal that makes him egual in all fronts? Football is a team sport and everyone’s success largely depends on the team they are in. Or do you dare to claim that CR7 would have scored his goals without the likes of Ozil, Marcelo and Benzema? So many football fans must have a good reason to compare Messi with the likes of Pele and Maradona, true legends in the history of the game. What about your little CR7? He is way too out of the league of the greatest ever and should be fortunate to be compared to Messi from time to time thanks to the courtesy of Special No One’s constant endavors to talk him up virtually everytime he talks to media and commercial and opportunistic media’s compelled tend towards him.

  • Analyze This

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    Seriously guys and gals, you can have and voice your opinions about the players, but why must you make personal attacks and insult the players (in particular immature Messi fans). Those of you who have said Pele is garbage and jealous, what have you achieved that gives you the privilege to say that?

    Also thanks Brad, drugs in sports is a disgrace, I don’t like Maradona for that reason.

    And Ellie Boy I would totally agree with you that the best player right now is C. Ronaldo. Messi cannot perform without Barca just look at his international form.

  • Brad

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    Also, Mardon, another thought just occurred to me. . .

    we need truly talented players to help advance the game, right? We need someone to rise up and raise the bar for the rest of us, am I wrong? Well, there was Di Stefano, and Puskas, and Stanley Matthews, and Tom Finney. Then there was Pele and Garrincha, and Didi. George Best. Johan Cruyff, Michel Platini, Diego Maradona. Romario, Ronaldo. Zidane. Beckham.

    Players like these, in some way, rose up and gained world recognition for their talents, and were considered in their prime to be either the best or at least one of the best. They’ve served as inspiration to younger players, from 4 year olds to their more youthful peers in the professional game. They’re all heroes. They’ve all inspired us in some way. Do we really, absolutely, must have to actually see the player in question in order to be inspired by them? I think not, but that’s my opinion on that matter; what’s yours?

    oh HA! I just saw a mistake in my previous comment: I meant to say “grandchildren”, not “grandparents!” LOL!!!!

  • Brad

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    Mardon, you get the idea. . . that is, if you bothered to read the rest of the comment. I’m sure Messi has seen Zidane, and Maradona, and Rooney. . . and I’m sure all of these before mentioned players have been inspired in some form or fashion by Pele, regardless of whether or not they’ve seen him play, live or on Youtube. I personally got inspired just hearing the 3 WC, which no one else has done, as well as the 1,280+ goals in, I believe 1,363 matches. Sorry for any misunderstandments there, Mardon.

    And I’m also sure that Ronaldo has also been inspired in some form or fashion by Pele, too. . .

    Ellie boy, is that what it has come to? To just brush aside the fact that someone did performance enhancing drugs? As an American, hearing about drugs is very common place in our sports of American football, baseball, basketball, and hockey. It SICKENS me. That’s why I hate ALL drug abusing athletes. No doubt, Maradona was very talented, but the drugs brings him down in my rankings.

    Haokip, exactly how many times do I have to stress this, too? I’m NOT, I repeat, NOT, anti-Messi. This is my personal belief, that I’d like everyone else to see the sense behind, and respect, if not take on, about the next Maradona: he’s the best player in the world, right now, but he has yet to attain the title of the best player EVER. That crown still belongs to Pele.

    But how would I love to see Messi overtake Pele. . . that way I can tell my grandparents that I was alive to see the best ever player. . . I’d just love it!

  • Haokip

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    Brad…as far as i’m concerned you are just anti-messi. By the way the best player to have played football at the moment is ronaldo(brazillian)

  • Mardon

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    Brad, could you expand on your last comment “If it weren’t for Pele, Messi would not have such talent.”
    Were I to read your statement that Messi got supranaturally “inspired” by Pele and his games, I vividly remember reading on this very website about Messi not having watched Pele play.

  • Brad

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    Thank you, Analyze This, and you, Felix, for real statements not just just the usual crap that people like Haokip put. As if anyone cares about Europa. . . and how can it be competitive when the all spanish final was NOT in La Liga?

    If it weren’t for Pele, Messi would not have such talent. Then again, neither would Zidane, Maradona, Cruyff, Rooney. . . need I go on?

  • ELLIE BOY

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    If you take messi away from barca hell never play like is doin now at barca because he is surrounded by great players. But luk at christiano from the english now in spain what a player, who scored the most hatricks last season in spain ronaldo who even the record this season messi plz people facts. Facts you cn take christiano to anytime an still play like he always do..

  • ELLIE BOY

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    You guys goin on abt pele, what about maradona the best player ever who lived to play the game,a guy who not even pele can talk wth,he who got take on 5 guys and still score….ya ya ya he had a drug problm so what he still playd the best soccer……..messi,messi who ?? Ronaldo is the bst plyer off today

  • Haokip

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    La liga is the most competetive league in the world and the proof is…an all spanish europa league final and it could have also been an all spanish cl final if an el clasico was not in between the two legs of the semi-final. And did you see how bilbao outplayed man utd. It is considered a two team league because barca and madrid are the two best clubs in the world by a long margin. If this two teams are put in any other so called competetive league the result would be the same as in the la liga

  • Haokip

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    La liga is the most competetive league in the world and the proof is…an all spanish europa league final and it could have also been an all spanish cl final if an el clasico was not in between the two legs of the semi-final. And did you see how bilbao outplayed man utd

  • Analyze This

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    First of all Messi and Pele are one of a kind great players, however Pele has the record and Messi is nowhere close yet. Why would a person who has the record and enjoying his leisurely life as a delegate of soccer be jealous of someone who has nothing to do with him? Next all of you who say soccer wasn’t as competitive then, are you insane? All I have t say about that is, no fancy shoes with pads and grips, no crazy physical therapy and ice baths, no super aerodynamic balls, no perfect fields. If you put Messi with that kinda of equipment his skill would diminish noticeably. Next all the defenders as someone above has mentioned, would break his legs, where no one frowned upon two legged tackles, tackles from behind or taking the player and the ball out at the same time. Please Messi followers, consider that before you insult a man who has evolved soccer into what it is now.

  • Felix The Cat

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    Messi isn’t the best because he has yet to achieve what Pele has. Sure Messi is a great player who scores a lot of goals but he plays in one of the least competitive leagues in Europe, where two teams always dominate the top and are ahead of the other teams by 20+ points. Sure players now train with better equipment but they also play on better fields. Can Messi score over 1000 goals without a perfect field? I think not. But Pele could and did. So before you get overly emotional and piss yourselfs, all you Messi fans, you should consider the less than desirable conditions that Pele had to play in and the criticism he most likely received at that time for being black. That’s real pressure, not getting paid millions of dollars and than having some dips**t blog about how bad you are and bit***ng about it.

  • Haokip

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    Everyone knows that pele is a legend(because he scored more than 1000 goals ….only in the brazillian league where the quality of football is much lower than europe) but he should try to act as a legend and stop projecting himself every time that ‘he is the best footballer to ever lived’…..or maybe he realised that messi is better than him and he feel threatened

  • RHISTO

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    PELE I AM GONE TELL YOU SOMETHING SHUT YOUR MOUTH YOU HAVE NEVER KNOW HO HAS GONE BROKE YOUR RECORD YOU HAVE NEVER KNOW ONLY GOD KNOWS THAT YOU ARE NOT GOD PELE.JEALOUSE THAT ARE YOU.PELE YOU DON’T LOVE MESSI I KNOW THAT.YOU LIKE WHEN MESSI SCORE GOALS YOU DON’T LIKE THAT. PELE YOUR TIME IS OVER NOW IS MESSI TIME TO SHINE BIGUP YOU MESSI WE ALL LOVE YOU IS YOUR TIME MESSI IS YOUR TIME

  • aisha

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    dnt no y pele kips talking about messi d way he does…or is he jealous?aw cn an old man like him kip saying such nonsense…i tot wisdom comes with old age or does it?

  • teenage

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    we also need to look and the modern game and the style of play by other teams. plz pele people will tell u that you are the best just wait and watch messi enjoy what he does the most

  • Brad

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    Yes, pedzzi, Pele knows that Messi has a chance to beat him as being the world’s best ever. But thing is, he HASN’T yet. I’m getting tired of the blindness that people like Kghan (who I already know isn’t very likely to answer me) who talk JUNK but don’t give no facts to support their claims that, even though he’s yet to win a WC, let alone his second WC goal, Messi is the best, when PELE STILL IS.

    I can tell you, we throw Messi back in the playing days of Pele, what few defenders there were back then would tear the little guy up without having to worry about getting punished by the ref.

  • pedzzi

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    i truly respect pele and i feel messi has accomplished some though he still got time in his hands to prove critics.
    but still 1 thing that excites me is that PELE admitted himself if u read between the lines….. am out

  • Kghan

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    You know, I am really tired of Pele blindness, although I enjoy seeing an old timer trying to bring his past life in the spot light and envious of the those who are NOW in the spot light – forgetting that his game was as running on a highway, no defenders to surround him never mind glued to him and break him down even before he get the ball, Pele dribbled through defenders with at least 1 meter space between them while Messi dribbling through them while they are glued to him leaving them crumbling on the field one after another that you think they bags of cement stacked over each other and still scoring wonder goals – Pele you were great in playing your TIME game OPEN tactics and you get the attention and recognition you deserved then – today you are MOUTH playing the game which is out of your old mind imagination – what recognition are you seeking NOW ? Perhaps, you are excused if you wished that you are playing in such footballing times – if you were playing today, I wonder if you will ever get the chance to run at any player, most likely you will be less than ordinary player who is still in the TRYING phase of his career. Enjoy watching and admiring Messi, Neymar, Ronaldo “although I do not like him but I still enjoy his power play” … Benzima, Xavi, Iniesta, Ruberry, etc etc … So, Pele STOP talking JUNK – remain the respected Pele we know and just enjoy and admire what you see.

  • Brad

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    where’s some facts, Idris, if you please? Even back then, they had to have a lot of fitness.

  • idris

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    the thing is pele played at a time when pele was playing football wasnt as hard as it is now, in todays game the footballers have to go gym thye have to have a certian level of fitness. however back in the day the guys were not as good as thye are now physcially and technically. pele also played in league whihc wasnt very challenging, however he did play in the world cups and he had a good team, where as messi plays in one of the hardest leagues in the world and as foe the international thing well messi is not a winger he a free roaming guy, he will go where he likes. and the manager is letting him do that and hes playing great for his country. 🙂 so pele stop being so arrogant ur times is gone messi is one of a kind. hes better than pele

  • cool dude

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    Pele is farrrrr too arrogant to be the G.O.A.T.

  • emeke

    0 0

    I pray for chelsea officials to visit synagogue church all nations in nigeria,to meet the senior Prophet T.B Joshua for more prayers concerning this champions league final.This is our year to lift this trophy all chelsea fan.

  • Brad

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    I’m guessing he was also intimidated by the rise of players like Cruyff, Maradona, Romario, Ronaldo (both of them), and Zidane? The only thing to back your claim is that Messi is doing greater than any of those specific competitors, but he’s not even level with Pele yet, or for that matter, beyond Pele.

  • Joe

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    Not on any side in particular but guys common …don’t you think the once great Pele is just too old to be talking tall??? Whence all but now he can do is just sit and watch Messi rise higher and higher. Maybe, maybe… he’s feeling intimidated by such a stellar talent… that be my theory..!

  • Brad

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    Cool story, samuel, needs more dragons and stuff, along with REAL fact, and not your insufferable opinionated ideas, to support your claim.

  • Idani Churchill

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    My friend Samuel,let us not b sentimental.Pele have said,messi equal my record.That’s all what he had said.What is then d fuss all about.Whether you like or not,Pele is still d greatest.

  • samuel

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    jealouse Pele, go to hell!!!! MESSI is the best ever.HATE HIM OR LOVE HIM, The fact remains.

  • Brad

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    Futbol guru, where’s some facts that Messi is better? And don’t give me pressure nonsense, you don’t need pressure to prove yourself.

  • leke

    0 0

    pele was a combination of lionel messi and cristiano ronaldo.Messi is only Messi.Pele the best ever

  • futbol guru

    0 0

    PELE ERA WAS PETTY, THE PRESSURE A STAR FACES NOW IS WAY WORST THAN WHAT PELE WOULD HAVE EVA GONE TRU IN HIS LIFETIME…. PELE JUST JEALOUS A BRAZILIAN NOT THERE TAKING THE SPOTLIGHT…. MESSI RULZ PELE GET WITH IT….

  • Pitt

    0 0

    Kondouy mee a Pele…

  • Brad

    0 0

    Peter, some idiots decided to throw the gauntlet down again, and notice all of them are Messi fans, but only one actually gives a good fight. . . if any fight at all.

  • Peter Mantu

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    Let’s not forget that this discussion is about Pele and Messi. I also thought that the discussion was brought to a closure by Roy Smith February 23, 2012 at 10:11 pm.

    I fully agree with you on this one!!! Drogba, E’too…whatever

  • Htm

    0 0

    wy are ol of u guyz nt including people lyk E’too, Drogba and Mwaruwari who has also done great for Africa. They are truly the pioneers of African football.

  • Brad

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    cool story, Arthur, where’s the facts to prove it?

    Teammates are a big part of a certain player being considered the best. Di Stefano, Pele, George Best, Maradona, Garrincha, Puskas, Messi. . . the list goes on. . . all of them needed teammates to help them do their level best, and to push it to where they can do better. If Pele had never been born, Garrincha would be the best ever. Why? Garrincha is a big reason why Pele has 3 WC championships instead of just 2.

    For the record, Pele had a better on-field record that was also matched by his off-field record. Unfortunately for people like Garrincha, Maradona, and Best, the on-field is not as spectacular as Pele’s was, and the off-field part is in even worse condition, I’d say.

  • Arthur Plottier

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    Mr Pele, you was a great player but Garrincha was much better than you.
    You are not the best player ever, Alfredo Di Stefano was IMO the best followed by Messi and Garrincha in not an order.
    Maradona was great but not humble to to deserve be the best.

  • Brad

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    Amazing, just amazing. Cloud, if you read this, I’m afraid that there are still idiots who spray-paint “Messi is the best” but run away and don’t both to give facts except the worthless part about Messi’s humility. Just because someone is humble AND talented doesn’t mean they’re better than the rest.

  • Gremond ishaku

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    Messi is too good 2 compared wit living legands.maradona insist is beta like pele also,take note that messi ave broken d best club in d world.if well observed same people play in world cup.

  • Benard Chibiku

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    he is better than everyone and he thinks he is the greatest of all.Messi is the best and Pele is miles away ,cant be compared to Maradona.He is big headed .

  • legend5xx

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    u took the words ryt out of my mouth G.O.A.T.cldnt have sed it better

  • TheG.O.A.T

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    Messi is the best. As far as world cups go if Messi had players behind him that pele did in the world cup he would win several. I dont think the world cup is a measuring stick for best player of all time.. Your essentially saying that a kid born in some small country somewhere has no chance of ever becoming the G.O.A.T simply because he doesnt have the players around him to Win the World Cup.. my 2cents

  • franco 11

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    i see no1 has anythng to say coz another record ws broken silence is truly golden and a golden boot for messi tooo lolll!

  • franco 11

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    sorry meant 1000 goals

  • franco 11

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    gentleman gentleman hold ur horses pele has got to be freaking out watchng messi score 5 goals ydy at ths rate 100 goals is pretty much doeable dnt u thnk brad, russ ru and cloud.pure brilliance il say

  • cloud

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    .. i forgot, Mr. Franco, Messi is AFFORDABLE. If only Barca will allow it. Even if they put a 150 million for-sale price tag on his head, Manchester City will snatch him in an instant.

  • cloud

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    .. my guess is messi won’t stay in barcelona for much too long, it all depends on Pep. If Pep stays, then messi will too, but if Pep will leave, i’m sure Messi will follow him and that would be a very big headache for barca’s officials.

  • franco 11

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    please mr fred dnt thnk messi doesnt wanna change js buy him if u can afford him

  • Fred

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    I’ll try to be brief and I acknowledge that many of you know more about the game. Here is my ranking: 1. Pele 2. Maradona 3. Zidane 4. Messi

    My only issue with Messi at this point is that I believe strongly that his success is very dependent upon his Barcelona team. He is one of the best already no doubt but how would he fare in the EPL or on Real Madrid? I have to wonder though we will probably never know. If I could have one player from the Barcelona squad, it would be Xavi or Messi. Pele played in an era wheen the game was played at a slower pace. The two most amazing players i’ve seen…Maradona and Zidane.

  • cloud

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    .. it would be amazing if someone would dispute what Mr. johan said. The man who has done it all both as a player and a manager. Being spectacular and being the best are two different things. He chose Xavi as the best due to him being the heart of Barca and of Spain. And yes, Messi is only spectacular coz he just scores.

  • Brad

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    and look at who out of those two has a World Cup, and who hasn’t. And while you’re at it, look at who has 3 World Cups. Amazing how someone can be an equal to the only player to have done that, when they haven’t even got to the tournament’s semifinals.

  • cloud

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    .. From Mr. Cruyff himself:

    “It is very hard to tell who is the best. (In my eyes) the most spectacular is Messi, but the best is Xavi. “

  • franco 11

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    @kevin the brit well sed my good man well sed

  • Kevin the Brit

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    Messi… Is without a doubt an equal to Pele. He will never win a World Cup because Argentina Sucks! With Barcelona Messi is GOD. With Argentina he is nothing more than the 11th man on the field. I love to watch the little man.

  • cloud

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    .. my parting words for this discussion is .. Only Time Will Tell ..

    .. i’ve browsed thru this website’s forum board, it’s very empty. How I wish people would be more active there ..

  • franco 11

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    hahahaha u seem exhausted brad fair enough discussion over join me in the other discussions on offer gentleman like the suarez evra incident and who might take the FA cup this season

  • Brad

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    Agreed. about time, a whole month and 120 something comments later. . .

  • Roy Smith

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    Pele’s never won the Champions League, nor has he been in a league like La Liga today. Messi’s never won a World Cup, hasn’t scored over 1000 goals, and is a flop for Argentina. However, fans of the younger generation view Messi as the best player ever, because they’ve never seen the ability of Pele, the mastermind of Cruyff’s, and the passion and leadership of Beckenbauer. With every generation, players change, and ultimately, opinions change. Thirty years from now, there’ll be a new “best player” and our children will argue that they’ll never be as good as Messi. If we try to change opinions of the young, modern football will suffer due to a lack of passion. Let people have opinions. That’s what makes us fans. I’m sure all my ancestors have different opinions on who the best players are, but ultimately it’s our love of our generation that keeps the passion within our hearts. The only time we are entitled to correct others on their football opinion is when our wives tell us that David Beckham is the player ever solely due to his looks. Other than that, just let fans put their two cents in a debate, and refrain from correcting them. Opinions are worth a thousand facts, because they have passion behind them. To those of you saying Messi is better than Pele, you guys are absoloutely right. And those that believe Pele is superior you’re right too. And with this, I think we can bring this whole conversation to a close.

  • Brad

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    No, I didn’t really get what freedom was saying. . . and besides, I was just teasing you.

  • franco 11

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    @freedom hey buddy are u jamaican.go messi for sure man

  • franco 11

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    oh yah guys nthng personal but did any1 get wat freedom was saying

  • franco 11

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    even i laughed wen i realised i had sed barca actually wanted to say argentina my bad.ok let me look at the stats and wat argentina are gonna put on the table interms of a squad and il let u knw if its a winning team or not

  • franco 11

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    it was a type error cloud and brad shish i knew brad uld capitalize gosh!!!!!

  • Brad

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    Ummmm. . . Barca win Euro 2012? You’re on the right continent, Franco, but this is something for the national teams to challenge for, not club teams like Barca! (laughs)

    And Cloud, I’ve been saying that just about the entire time, myself.

    I think this is where we can end it boys. Now lets sit back, revel in Pele’s career, and watch to see whether or not Messi will beat him.

  • cloud

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    @franco, the EURO 2012 i’m referring to is the one that will be played this June – July and will be hosted by Ukraine and Poland. Barca won’t be there coz it will be a battle between the Nations of Europe. it’s not a Club competition.

    .. Messi’s chance for country honors is still too far ahead. On the World Cup 2014 and Copa America 2015, both will be held on Brazil.

    .. the only time that Messi can overtake Pele is when he wins a World Cup and the Copa America in flying colors. till that day happens, Pele is still on top of everyone else. That’s what i’m trying to say Franco.

  • freedom

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    messi is simply the best of our time. he’s unstoppable whether you like it or not. Pele’s attitude towards messi is beef and fear accompanied with jealousy. his times are over, while not go to sleep and allow us to decide. Each time messi is rated world’s best, you’ll refer him to pele. each time messi is rated the best, Pele will get up from his seat. everything Na turn by turn. now Na messi turn, Una no see am son? wen him time don finish, anoda person go take over. Well, i get advise for Una, wen u no accept defeat, you self no go ever Win. Because it takes failure to succeed. A word is enough for the wise.

  • Franco 11

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    so what if barca win euro 2012 or at least if u see messi shine he then has an edge ove pele is that it cloud

  • cloud

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    @franco, congrats on your uncle for reaching such a ripe age. he’s lucky enough to have seen the greats in action. especially with pele, puskas, alfredo, cruyff.

    .. today’s generation, US, are very lucky to have those great players to inspire us and we try to emulate them and here comes in the word evolution. Each sport has evolved into something better, in football we’re seeing very young players with such talent; Messi, Ronaldo, Neymar, RVP and more.

    .. Players today have the advantage of science to monitor their health and advancement of training techniques to avoid injury and tons of videos of the “GREATS” for them to review and learn from. I’m not discrediting our generation, all i’m saying is, this TREND is but normal that the latest generation will have much more advantage than the previous.

    @franco, believe me, how i wish Messi could replicate his form with argentina and with that, let’s wait till he wins something for his country.

    .. Euro 2012 is the nearest of them national competitions, since cr7 is one of those players that performs well at club level but struggles in his country, he will be greatly monitored.

    @dede, the 2010 Ballon D’Or was one of those bad decisions in football. A world cup year and we had Xavi, Iniesta and Messi as finalist, but, WHERE IS WESLEY SNEIJDER ?? Wesley won a treble with Inter Milan and reached the Finals for his country. He should be at least there as the finalist. But they chose Messi instead, which is frankly, a very stupid decision for them. Xavi deserves it more that year.

  • kofi

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    yal should have a life it looks like football defines the life of some people and pele please shuy your old ass up your time has gone.

  • dede

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    i luv madrid but i still see messi az tha best. believe me its un ussuall to find people accepting that a rival is great. u can tell 4rm the sound of Pele’s words(if messi wins 2 world cups) dats total crap. when spain took FIFA 2010 world cup why dint a spaniard become the 2010 world best player? its not about how many world cups you have won, Pele please save us the shaky tongue. pele was a striker scored many goals BUT messi iz more talented n skilled than pele,he plays an attacking midfield/support striker role yet still he scores like no one’s bussiness in this era of solid defenders. HIZ A LION.

  • dede

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    i luv madrid but i still see messi az tha best. believe me its un ussuall to find people accepting that a rival is great. what can settle Brad’s mind is having a glance at videos of back then n compare with todays. pele was a striker scored many goals BUT messi iz more talented n skilled than pele,he plays an attacking midfield/support striker role yet still he scores like no one’s bussiness. HIZ A LION.

  • Franco 11

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    oh yah with that in mind why arent u guys sayng smthng abt the barca game with valencia 5-1 guess what havoc messi caused woo hooo with 4 consecutive golas in shear brilliance i shld say

  • Franco 11

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    my uncle says pele was a player who was in a league on his own, fast and a brilliant goal scorer making that his most loved trait,maradona ws skillful and witty and apart from his later drug scandals no one can deny that he is a great and after peles time he was the only thng worth watching,then the baggio era followed by zidane wer impressive but not anythng to ryt home abt.but then he paused and sed maybe its old age and im still to get my memory serve me well but iv been watching messi for 4 years constantly and for a player his height he is displayed a calibre of football very close to pele except for his goal aggregate being less than peles i cn definately tel u he is quicker,sharper and more skillful than pele was and here ws the best part he sed shame that he plays for the rng country had he been brazilian his name would be cemented for all eternity hahaha i was in stitches i realised all we have is stats but views from people who wer actually ther and watched these guys in and out of season should tell a better picture so im sayign that this is how we can end this gentleman and we need to strike a deal lets send i dnt knw hw a world wide post for people to vote both young and old on who is a cut above the rest and if pele wins il take it in and accept but if messi wins brad u on the next flight to spain to watch a barcelona game on me and i do apologize for calling u brat tt ws more ur nature than mine lol

  • Franco 11

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    thanx dede and don its gud to know there are people who see the light.before i get to pele could we please nt put tt drug addict into this league of extra -ordinary gentleman i have enuf junk on him to sedn him slightly below zlatan ibrahimovic.

  • Franco 11

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    hey gentleman took time out coz wasnt well but im bak and enjoying the chats it seems brad and colleagues have been taking the net by storm im impressed bt guess wat i dd on my sick leave met up wth my uncle who satsy in madrid and hes 82 years old and this is what he had to say about pele bear in mind am not fabricating facts this is a man who saw bth maradona and peles time plus currently viewing messi

  • Brad

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    @dede, you sound just like every single one of the other numbskulls we’ve had to deal with, and not only dealt with, but EMBARASSED. I don’t even know why Cloud and I are even bothering to answer you.

  • cloud

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    .. @dede, kindly look up the meaning of the word EVOLUTION. that’s my only answer to your statement.

  • dede

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    hey pele should stop bragging. after seeing video highlights believe me both messi and christiano ronaldo are better than pele. Pele’s generation was not as technical as today. if the football messi plays now was transfered to the 70’s & 80’s my God people would be saying MESSI best ever ever ever.

  • Brad

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    You just nailed it right on the button Cloud. Messi still has a lot of work to do. Not just stats, but the international honors. So far all he’s got is a runner’s up medal at the 07 Copa America. Not very impressive when you compare his international honors at age 24, with the honors Pele got by age 22.

  • cloud

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    .. don is like someone who paints MESSI IS THE BEST on a wall and runs to avoid capture. I hate to generalize but only Franco here can actually defend Messi in a civilized manner, the rest post only nonsense.

    .. i’m only a nobody, buy my opinion is; as long as messi doesn’t win anything for his country then his name can’t be uttered in the same level as Pele and Maradona.

    .. i have a feeling that most of the Messi fans will be converted to Christiano Ronaldo fans next year, since CR7 is playing better than Messi and Real Madrid right now has ended Barca’s reign in La Liga.

  • Brad

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    (rim shot). Again, Cloud and Russ, we have an adversary that doesn’t even give facts to support his saying Messi is best ever. Sorry don, but you haven’t ended this.

    Now Franco, what say you?

  • don

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    @Brad Cloud and Russ Ru, guyz y dnt u gt ur asses out on D pitch & prove rathr thn mamoth paragraphing views u r nt even d crap of Pele, maradona or Messi to upgrade or degrade them on their levels and i only in short agree these stars will b never born again so lez just all salute them Pele best of his time, Maradona best of his and Messi the best for this era and best everrrrr…! i would now end it up and by the way u guyz come to papa someday>>>kiddos.

  • Brad

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    Excuse me, can’t stop laughing. . . . . . haha. . . . oh goodness. . . . . Franco, I know I took the mickey, but calling me “brat” is no better than what I did. If you’re going to reprove me, don’t do it like that. At least try and sound like an adult. But you sounded just like an 11 year old

    But what cloud says right above at the end of his comment nails it on the button. Pele was always better from a younger age. Exactly how many times have we seen someone score a hat trick beyond the quarterfinals? I can only think of 2. And it just so happens that Pele was the first of them. And he’s also part of that truly elite group of players who have scored 3 times in the final match. Messi still hasn’t reached the semis, and has only 1 goal to the good in WC tournaments.

    Oh yeah, not just the World Cup. . . the Copa America. . . . like Cloud said, Messi’s virtually invisible in that competition, and it’s not like he’s playing some of the best teams in the world, apart from Brazil. I don’t know how many Copa Americas Pele won, but he’s got at least one or two.

    Now, James, that was actually worse than Franco calling me a brat. . . . tisk, tisk. . . . 8 year old, at best I’d say. If you’re going to comment again from now on, make sure it’s intelligent, and not to mention, on subject. Hold on. . . (laughs to death and back).

    Back to Franco, I think me, cloud, and russ ru have said stuff about x factors no one on Earth can control. I think we’ve included injuries in that, am I wrong Cloud? Here, let’s go into the “what if?” realm and look at what would’ve happened: Pele would’ve played in every game had he not got a knock or whatever it was, and scored+assisted several goals. And while we’re on this part, with Brazil: no doubt that Pele’s teammates had a lot to do with him being the most valuable jewel on an already glittering crown (the x factor we’ve already discussed). But then we’ve got Messi’s teammates at Barca, his own personal performances and stats, plus the trophies he’s won at Camp Nou. And then the nail in the coffin: what about his time with Argentina? Not as impressive, and not an ounce of championship achievement. Not a fan of Maradona, but he did a better job leading his team to glory, with an inferior squad to boot, I’d daresay!!!

    How about this ranking (all-time, at least for the moment, I’ll say AGAIN, that Messi still can break Pele’s records) 1.) Pele 2.) Maradona 3.) Messi.

    It is your opinion that Messi is the best. Fine. While I would absolutely love to change your opinion for you, now I’ll settle for you at least seeing the reason behind me, Cloud, and russ rus’ arguing. You haven’t given Pele any credit apart from the 1958 championship. You even downgraded his 1970 win, which means you’ve downgraded the best ever WC tournament, and even the game itself. Let’s end this now, gracefully. And I’ll let you end this, with your reply.

  • cloud

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    .. thanks for that research Franco, now we can discuss this in a more objective manner.

    .. but before that, a big thanks for the comedic interruption from James.

    .. anyway, franc, let me refute your facts:

    fact 1: during pele’s time, people aren’t crazy about individual awards. unlike today when every magazine and organization gives out their own award.

    fact 2: you’ve mentioned the brazilian legends on the Brazil squad. While Xavi and Iniesta are of Barca a Club. But if i follow your train of thought, both Messi and Pele would be nothing without their team mates, right ?? But how come pele has delivered both for Club and country ?? Should we put the blame on Messi’s argentinian team mates for his flop ??

    fact 3: the brazil of 2002 have players from all over europe and so does france of 2006. italy 2006 and spain 2010 basically have players coming from their own league. but it doesn’t mean that when a squad is from the same league gives them automatic chemistry. there will always be a player that leads them. Brazil had Ronaldo on 2002. Zizo for france in 2006 and Cannavaro for Italy. And Xavi and Casillas for Spain 2010. Messi is tagged as the best player in the planet, then why haven’t we seen him leading his country to glory ?? .. ok forget about the World Cup, how about the Copa America when the teams participating are sub-standard. Why is Messi still invisible in that tournament ??

    fact 4: that remains to be seen if messi will shatter Pele’s record. well, messi wasn’t able to compete with CR7 when Ronaldo is healthy on the goals tally.

    .. and franc, you mentioned messi’s achievement at 25. well, pele was only 17 at 1958, scored a hat-trick on the semis and two at the finals.

  • russ ru

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    ok, i know i said i wouldn’t comment anymore… @ franco what u said To james just made my day! Lol 🙂 *tears from laughter* with that i’ll let cloud, franco and brad resume…

  • Franco 11

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    @ james thanx for ur unrequired interjection but the reason we have this website is for heated debates like this go watch oprah or something wer the talks dont require ur minimal intelelct.u were saying brad….

  • JAMES

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    well it has taken me over two days to finish reading this thread and i seriously think you all are crazy
    pele and messi will never give you a dime for standing up for them the way you are right now!!!so go and do something better with your lives and i believe there is a 16 year old go do your homework silly boy and the rest don’t you have anything better to do with your lives…just end this you all entitled to your own opinion and truth be told you will never be able to convince each other who the best is ….GET A LIFE!!!!

  • Franco 11

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    seeing u english brad thank u for downgrading mine thats so mature…oh sorry u 16 i cant expect anymore from you.its called a type error.usually got so much great stuff to say abt messi that i get overwhelmed.trust me u dont want me to use spanish to cement my facts.in 1962 pele only played one match and hardly finished it so he wsnt influential in that world cup making him a glory rider such a prick and his 1970 world cup wasnt all that to ride home abt either i cn give him credit for 1958(u see i gave him a lil bit) so plz ths whole cup thng is over rated.

    Hope the english is better now brat sorry brad

  • Brad

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    You still haven’t done enough homework, Franco. Go back and read comments by me, Cloud, and Russ Ru: We have said REPEATEDLY that Messi isn’t better than Pele right now. . . read those two words again. . . RIGHT NOW. . . . that’s what we’re getting at. Just because you win a million personal accolades doesn’t automatically mean you’re the best, and the reason why is that personal accolades are nothing compared to championship trophies. And we’ve also ALREADY said that Pele being born a Brazilian during a time when Brazil could call on the likes of Rivelino, Jairzinho, etc., etc. . . . is an X FACTOR. We can’t control that part, and neither can you and the Messi puppets.

    If Messi was already crowned, he’s have won the 2006 and 2010 World Cups already with Argentina, and be well on his way to drawing level with Pele 2 years from now. I’ll give you this: he’s got 3 World Cups left in him. He can win all 3, but it’s gonna take more than just him to win it. Pele had the X factor of being on a team full of team players, not individual talents that Argentina typically produces. Pele also had the X factor of being one of those team players automatically. We’re trying to tell you, Pele’s the best ever, RIGHT NOW. We’re trying to tell you, that Messi STILL HAS A CHANCE, and a decent one at that, of becoming better. If there is anyone who needs to open their eyes, it is you Franco, and the other bandwagoners (well, most of them, anyways) who still don’t make for any intelligent reading or argument.

    And yes, I know who Pele’s teammates were. I hope you know who Messi’s teammates are, because that right there just made that 2nd fact immediately REDUNDANT.

    Pele played better for club AND (note the “and” right there) country. And considering the fact that playing for country has always been tougher (taking into account that whoever you play almost always puts their best players together).

    I’m not peeing in my pants. I’m not flaunting accolades. I’m stating facts that support my argument that Pele is better. And facts never lie. Fact: Messi is the best player in the world today. Fact: Messi has a chance to become better than Pele. FACT: Pele, however, is still the best ever, Messi hasn’t even reached him yet.

    Try being more intelligent, Messi fans. And try sounding intelligent too. I’ve noticed the half of you still downgrade Pele (which automatically means we’ll downgrade Messi, only by using facts, so your comebacks are still redundant). And not only that, you don’t even type intelligently. I had 2 reeeeed abt haf an owah 2 understand wut u r sayen Franco.

    U guys still ain’t sed nothing 2 convince us dat Messi is betta dan Pele. . . .
    haha.

  • Franco 11

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    open your eyes guys messi’s got it and hes gonna prove and even if he hasnt by winning world cup standards ild put any of those two guys beside each other and pick the more humble option which by peles statement or maradonas they got nothing on messi even cristiano and thats why everyones tryna disprove him and ges what messi aint sed nothing to nobody the quiet alwasy knw tyhe truth they dont need to brag abt it so wen all these guys sit at home and piss in their pants and flaunt accolaides to try cover the truth they knw deep down that at 25 messi’s already been crowned

  • Franco 11

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    ok i didi my homework and i thnk all of us had very little stats except the whole 1283 goals and 3 world cups bla bla.

    @ brad,russ ru and cloud. we’ll agree both messi and pele are forwards making their analysis even better.will give you the first stats

    in peles whole life he only had 47 individual accolaides including those he summed up after his prime and half of the ones he did achieve were based on his scoring ability and messi in the past 7 years has assumed 71n individual accolaides both ona club and internationally recognised level

    Fact 2 for those that think messis game is dependent on xavi and inietsa if u agree that is true then Peles evn worse in the three world cups Pele won ddi you know he played alongside players such as didi,nilton santos,djalmar.rivelino jaizinho,garrincha,carlos torres gilmar ( hu has been rated goalkeeper of the century and played in all three world cups).the players i mentioned werent just ordinary players respectively in order of rankings. Didi wsas 7th ranked player of the century., nilton santos 9,garrincha second after pele, carlos torres 16 and all the above mentioned players are in the hall of fame of football at that time there is no way with peles talent his game wouldnt be escalated 1000 fold with players of such a calibre and u guys just mention xavi and iniesta please3…

    Fact 3 it is well known that if players play in the same league let alone the same club at lengthy periods of tym their team bonding is greatly affected in the positive coz their style of play is the same and they get to watch each other and study each others performance all the players i mentioned above played either for santos,botafogo or corinthians in the same local league the tym pele played and so truth is brazil squad during that time was jst a blen of guys hu knew each others play telepathically much like u complain abt messi, xavi and iniesta and thats why after 1970 upto 1994 when brazil won the world cup agen most players had started playing for different leaggues coz soccer had become more commercialised and tts why eevn nw the same brazil struggles coz talent has stepped up and most these guys are in different leagues and if u arguing abt those stats chek african football even recently zambia won the africa cup of nations for the first time and 9 of tehir players play in their local league they beat ivory coats which has the kalous and drogba we all watch at chelsea,egypt same stats for winning afcon abt 4 years ago,italy 2006 and even france 1998. And to conclude argentine players are spilt all over different leagues kun aguero -england.levezzi-italy,dimaria -spain,tevez somewhere without a squad or is it an argetine club i dont know but dont hate on messi the argentine squad itself hasnt stepped up to his standard or what their heritage expects from them

    Fact 4: no offence on peles goals but remember these are goals summed up from bth club and national scores,messis getting there with 230 goals out of 366 appearances who knws what it will be like after the 1384th game so stay tuned

    Messi fans hop yuo liked this we dont support a lost cause and ‘pele puppets’ before u go on and flaunt arnd town first look at the crutches that held pele together he wasnt individually brilliant alone he ws born at the ryt time with the ryt nationality

  • cloud

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    @brad, no matter how we paste the stats here between Messi and Pele, the messi fans still won’t admit that Pele is way above the argentinian. .. they always swerve the arguement on a more subjective vein, like i said, in sports what makes a player the greatest should be judge upon statistics.. and what you said about Messi is the true; In Barca his goal tally and assist tally is enormous but in Argentina, it’s like he’s not there at all.

    .. C’mon Messi fans, Could you at least defend your beloved Messi to why he’s below par when playing for his country ??

    .. A great player should perform consistently both for club and country.

  • Franco 11

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    ok give me a lil bit guys will send u a couple of facts before pele stays on that pedestal u put him on

  • shakir hasnain

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    Sir you are one of the greats but not the greatest.

    Zidane, Laudrup, Cryuff, Maradona
    Van Basten, Baggio, Zico, Ronaldinho
    George Best, Rivaldo, …..all are better than you Mr. Pele.

  • Brad

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    Also, I’m guessing that back in South Africa, and every other time that Messi has played for Argentina (just about, at least), all that has happened is that he’s had a bad game, and that line-ups have got nothing to do with it. He’s played a good 65 to 70 matches for Argentina, and a respectable (but nothing more than that) 19 goals. Then you look at his stats at Barcalona: he’s in triple figures on both matches played AND goals. It can’t be no coincidence that Messi scores more goals (and therefore plays better) when Iniesta and Xavi are in the line-up at the same time as him.

  • Brad

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    Franco, I’ve never seen Pele play live. I’ve never seen Maradona play live. I’ve never even seen Eric Cantona play live. I am only 16, which naturally means I’ll use the internet more than most. So yes, natuarally, I’ll side with Pele. The facts state he’s better (I mean, C’MON, he’s got 3 World Cups, the MOST IMPORTANT trophy in all of football, to Maradona’s 1, and Messi’s NONE). I’ve seen the video tapes, and that’s all I’ve got to see. It’s my opinion that Pele’s better, and I’ve stated the facts to prove that me, cloud, and russ ru are right on it.

    Tell me, have you seen any Messi fans state any facts AT ALL?

  • Paul

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    I take an exception to the use of diminutive, your point can be made without the use of a such a world. He never requested his stature, it’s natural

  • russ ru

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    @ franco i’m english, but i don’t see what that has to do with anythin. Brad and cloud i see that some of the messi fans won’t see reason. Pele won trophies whereever he played. Maradona won trophies wherever he played, (napoli in italy is known because of him!) These two players won whether they played in club sides or national sides. And as far as arrogance goes between the two, maradona is miles ahead! Facts are facts until messi wins 3 wcs i still say pele is better. Then that arrogant maradona is second. With that i’m done. Will not comment anymore on this topic

  • Franco 11

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    nw uv js called me bak in so are u saying a player cant have a bad day he had one and it had nothing to do with a line up

  • Franco 11

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    @cloud dont wear ur hart on ur sleeve bruv meant no offence.alryt il up my game bt cant see a way i could convinve u’all if i dont take the hate out of ur eyes and sadly i feel iv gotta wait for the world cup and by those standards dont see myself surviving

  • cloud

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    .. the match of Barca against Osasuna just proved my point that Messi is nothing without Xavi and Iniesta.

    .. to break it down in simplier terms:

    – Did you see Xavi and Iniesta on the line up ?? NO

    – did you see a goal from Messi ?? NO

    .. hence, Messi is nothing without Xavi and Iniesta.

  • cloud

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    here comes the discrimination slander, as expected when i mentioned my ethnicity.

    .. what you’re trying to say is, we of today’s generation have no right to admire pele when we haven’t seen him in action ??? well, buddy, you forgot about this thing called internet in which we’re in right now talking and you forgot about how many videos about pele are posted on youtube and docus about him floating around on torrent.

    .. it’s like you’re saying to forget about Magellan and how great an explorer he is coz you weren’t alive to witness his achievements.

    .. or we should stop believing/admiring Aristotles’ teachings coz his’ of a very old era and his teachings won’t suit us on the modern era.

    .. i’ll say this again, think before you make comments. don’t go doing personal attacks just becoz Pele is better than Messi. Show us your “class”.

  • Franco 11

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    @cloud thats called sarcasm buddy i thnk u guys should have that in the phillipines. bt anyway us tick to sucking up to old pele whilst we enjoy seeing new blood rule.just dnt understand how guys ur age would support someone hu u never watched play in ur lifetime unless maybe i missed other posts and u my guy are abt 70 years which wld js getting me thnkng wat the f**k are u dng talkign to yng guys on ths netwrk.oh yah by the way im spanish

  • cloud

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    @franco, i suggest before you make a comment you read the entire thread first to avoid humiliating yourself. a couple of post back brad said he is american. and me a filipino, i can’t say for russ’ ethnicity. but bottomline is we’re not brazilians and yet we like pele for his achievements both on and off the pitch.

  • Franco 11

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    @cloud, brad and russ ru my conclusion is u guys are brazilian period and can undertsand ur disslike for ur rivals argentina

  • cloud

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    @brad, and let me add to how the people of argentina praise Maradona who only won one world cup. He is considered by many to be second only to pele. Diego only has one, how much more pele who has three. Sometimes people confuse the act of telling the truth and arrogance.

    .. pele is on top of the football world coz he truly deserves it. many have come and yet failed to push him off the top.

    .. Pele was asked this question many times: WHO DO U CONSIDER TO BE THE BEST PLAYER OF ALL TIME ??? He would be lying if he answers a different name, of course his constant answer is.. ME, PELE. Coz let’s face, who could be better than him ??

  • Brad

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    Lachlan, you should listen to cloud there. Pele stuck to the facts: 3 World Cups, 1,284 goals, all scored in 1,363 matches. Why wouldn’t you want to state your achievements? It helps prove your point, and makes you desirable in a certain field. In the US, high school athletes play a certain sport for two years and get what you call a letterman jacket. If they win a championship with their team, or get named as one of the best players in the region/state/nation, they get patches to show it. It makes them look good. Pele is pretty much doing the same thing.

    Meanwhile, you want arrogant twats? See Tevez, see Balotelli. Tevez always demands huge salaries, then moans about how he isn’t paid enough, even if he gets what he wants. Then Balotelli is just a butthole. I remember last season he scored a hat trick, then proclaimed himself to be second only to Messi. Sorry, Mario. Thousands upon thousands of other, more talented, and more humble players have scored more than just one hat trick in their lives.

    But only one player has a hat trick of World Cups. . . .

  • cloud

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    @lachlan, there’s a phrase WHEN YOU HAVE IT, FLAUNT IT. I don’t think Pele is arrogant, he’s just stating his achievements and there’s nothing wrong with that. If you want to see arrogance, look at Tevez and Mario Balotelli. Tevez being a mercenary in terms of salary while Mario is a loudmouth with no personal accolade in his belt.

  • Lachlan

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    Pele is an arrogant twat. The fact that he was a great player doesn’t change that.

  • Brad

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    Cloud, I think we should just ignore them. They’re so repetitive, and not a single fact comes up except Messi is probably the fastest dribbler in the world right now, and the trophies that he wins. . . with Barca. But with that midfield that Messi has behind me, I could score in every game, too. But put me on another team (or Messi, to prove a point to his fans here) the goals scored stats will not be so impressive.

  • cloud

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    @russ …. i’ve noticed this with the messi fans, the way they argue is they tend to be subjective, like Mr. Franco. his entire very long paragraph above, he never mentioned anything from a statistical standpoint.

    .. How can a player be better than someone when he hasn’t even won anything for his country. It’s in how good you are with your country that truly measures a player’s worth.

    Let me state another fact for the Messi fans: Barcelona’s midfield is technically 60% of World Champions Spain, with Fabregas, Xavi, Busquets and Iniesta. let me say this again, for the third time now. No matter who Pep will put on at front/striker, they will surely score due to these aformentioned players ability to create goals. Look at Pedro, he is damn scoring. Messi is just overrated. he deserved his 1st ballon d’or and this 3rd, but his second, hell no.

  • russ ru

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    @ franco IF YOU HAD ACTUALLY READ earlier comments from myself, cloud and brad: you would find that we actually think that either xavi or iniesta should have won the ballon d’or for 2010 because they got spain that world cup… Like i said earlier messi and ronaldo still have to win trophies with their nations to join the ranks of pele and maradona.

  • cloud

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    @franco, my answer for you is Pele’s World Cup achievements. Santos forever and yet during the 31 day World Cup he delivered as expected. Unlike Messi, who’s only good at barca but failed big time with Argentina, not even made it to the finals on the LOWLY Copa America.

  • Franco 11

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    and dnt mention ney york cosmos his carreer was dyng then its nt about the team buddy if he’s fit in well then great and besdies its not like he cant move i js dont think anyone can afford him

  • Franco 11

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    @ cloud hey hey hw many teams dd pele play if hes so esteemed

  • cloud

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    .. i’ll say this again, coz this is the most obvious fact out there that people can’t seem to understand.

    – Messi is only good when he is in barcelona. period. the trophies he won in barca are astonishing. But that’s just it. He has ZERO TROPHIES FOR ARGENTINA. That proves to how dependent he is to his team mates in Barcelona.

    .. if we would ignore the statistics and only base on the performance of a player. On my previous post i made an example of players who helped their Club and Country and now here are some examples of Club Only:

    – zidane – while in juventus he was always the bridesmaid in the Champions League but he transfered to Real Madrid and made a vow to win it and so he did by scoring that super goal in the finals.

    – Ronaldo R9 – from Barca to Inter to Real Madrid, he has never slowed down. When he was healthy no one can stop him, it’s such a waste that he succumbed to injury

    – Zlatan – Inter, Barca, Milan. Same performance for each of these teams he played in.

    – Raul – of course his record in Real Madrid and when he transfered to Schalke he is still an influential player.

    – Ronaldo CR7 – devastating while in United and in his first year in Real was only stopped by an injury but on his 2nd year he broke the record in Spain.

    .. my point again, let Messi transfer to another team and let’s see how he would perform. Or we would only wait for Xavi to retire.

  • Franco 11

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    @ russ ru.bruv so help me out here then based on shear talent alone who would u pick messi or pele and please consider hw effective they play int their respective positions coz truth is im in ths discussion not based on wat the world thngs coz we all knw soccer ratings have been screwed.ws js thnkng if soccer greatness is as good as a persons scoring ability and world cup trophies then defenders and midfielders might never cut the mark and so we are hear as soccer lovers to express our different opinions not solely on what weve heard bt also considering what needs to be improved to make a more fare assesmnet of players ratings coz truth is on any day iv been equally impressed by the play of people like xavi hernandez and iniesta but just because they dont score much or have one many worldcup caps doesnt negate them from being legends in their own ryt.im sayign when we look at players like messi,zidane maradona pele we not so much tryna attack them from a trophies perspective or goal rating but how well they have played with respect to their positios, they way theyv blended in with their teams ,skill/talent importance to their and maybe summing that all up the silver wear they hold sop yah anyone willing to catch my drift

  • akoria lawrence

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    If u say messi is better than pele, then u need to take some medication. The world cup is the best football tournament, so dnt dangrade the world cup,the statistic will prove everytin to you, so dat is no comperison.

  • Brad

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    I have a feeling that the big guys have a hard time tackling Messi is because he’s fast off and on the dribble. It has to be psychological just as much as anything else. They go in, thinking “he’s just a pile of meat and bones like everyone else”, and are beaten. After that, they start screwing up. That’s what happened in Pele’s time. It’s happening now with Messi. The only difference is that Messi has yet to win the World Cup with that form of psychological warfare, while Pele won it twice, and then for good measure got a third medal.

  • Roy Smith

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    @Steve-o, It sounds like you’re saying Messi is not a brilliant footballer. Despite the help from his Barca teammates, at the end of the day, he’s far beter than any of us will ever be. Also, it seems as though you believe that if defenders tackle Messi, they’re chances of getting the ball will be 100%. Let me tell you, if Jose Bosingwa and David Luiz were up against Messi, he would indeed get past them as if they weren’t there. Big, bulky defenders aren’t afraid of a 5’6 man running at them. They don’t win the ball because they can’t.

  • russ ru

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    no one disputes messi’s talent franco… Seriously have you read any of these posts before you jus started yapping? Love it or hate it in the world of sports greatness is determined by what u win, PERIOD. and the greatest teams or players win coveted trophies the most times! Messi is GREAT but he is yet to be GREATER than Pele…

  • Steve-o

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    I wish people would stop going on about Messi! There have been many brilliant footballers over the years and messi is there or there abouts with some of them, but all this ‘Messi is God’s gift to football’ and making him out to be some sort of Messiah is, to be honest starting to make me a little sick. I often watch matches where he plays and ‘he runs through defences like they weren’t there’ ‘he is unstoppable on the ball’ etc etc is often the sort of comments made, but more often than not the defenders back away and won’t commit to a tackle (probably because of the reputation Messi has had built up for him by the media) on the rare occasion that a defender has stood him up and made a tackle he is stopped. Defenders need to forget about his reputation, see him as just another player and commit to there tackles! Messi would then soon stop getting as much joy/luck on the ball and Barcelona would have to turn to some of their other talented players!

  • Franco 11

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    u know wat guys iv read wat all of you had to say and before i even strat im a major messi fan and truth is i havent become a fan coz he ws rated or is rated the best in the world bt because hes proved to be.no offence on pele bt to win a world cup teakes team effort and its true back then very few countries were as strong as brazil bt soccers evolved over the years and actually players have learnt to boost their playing abilities because technolgy has helped.bt heres the highlight excuse the language bt messi’s still dng the same shit pele did in a more complex world of football and hes making it seem easy and thrice as fun to watch.despite everythng abt his built being against his soccer abilities he still will do anythng with the ball that maradona,pele or even cristiano could do.and if scoring and world cups is all that makes footballers famous then the game is only doomed to favour strikers and which we all no that cant be true.fact is Messi is Gods gift to football and until i live to see another man entertain the crowd display shear brilliance and be so humble abt it \messi will forever hold a part in evry football spectators hart even his haters.js rmbr brad,cloud and all of y’all jealousy is love and hate at the same time.peace

  • Brad

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    Roy, I never meant to belittle the Messi fans! I think you’ll find that many of their comments typically are the same: insulting Pele, but not giving any real, solid facts to prove Messi is better!

    Also, I’ve said before that having a humble attitude does help with your image as a footballer. Pele does sound arrogant, even though he has stated the facts. Messi doesn’t go around talking like that; he sticks with “how do I get better than I am now?” Pele claims to be the best, and I am just one to support him on it. And really, I believe it was FIFA’s idea to give WC medals to all players who had been on the squad of a winning team, yet didn’t (or couldn’t) play in the final.

    I like that bit about “Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.” Thing is, I think some people saw one piece of beauty, but didn’t (and still don’t) want to see an undoubtedly bigger piece.

    I think this can now bring this conversation to a close. . . . for now.

  • Roy Smith

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    @cloud, “all Messi fans”?

    Are you implying that every single Messi fan will tell you Messi is better than Pele?

    “players are judged by the trophies they won and how they won it”

    How about Van Persie? He’s the best forward in the entire EPL, and he’s yet to win a major trophy in his career. Yes, he’s technically won the FA Cup, but he was injured for the final, and you said that how the player won the trophy goes in to question.

    You’re right that statistics show that Pele’s better than Messi, but you’re wrong to tell everyone that they are not allowed to believe that Messi’s better than Pele, and need proof to validate their opinion. After all, these Messi fans rarely (admittedly, a few are a bit dumb) said that statistically, Messi was superior to Pele. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

  • cloud

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    @roy and all messi fans … .me, brad and russ might sound like we’re shoving our opinions down your throats, but we actually don’t, it’s just that the facts and statistics are right before our very eyes. any NEUTRAL can google it and the result is still the same. And it’s ridiculous at best that the messi fans still insist that Messi is better than Pele.

    .. this is sports we’re talking about here, players are judged by the trophies they’ve won and how they won it. Statistics won’t lie.

    .. and as for messi’s future, yes, he has the potential to beat Pele’s record, but, the way things are AT THE MOMENT, Messi still has to prove himself in the international level. And on that sense, Pele is still on top of everyone else.

    .. and for you Messi fans, please don’t ever downgrade the World Cup. Diego Maradona attained god-status in argentina coz he won it. Sir Bobby Charlton and Bobby Moore are immortals in England. Please use the head rather than emotion.

  • russ ru

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    @ roy, you just said “Pele is the greatest
    player of all time when you’re looking
    at statistics, and that will never change.” and this is all that we pele fans have been sayin. And be honest messi fans had he won a copa or a world cup, you wouldn’t be callin them “crappy” competitions.

  • Roy Smith

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    @Brad, No offence, but it seems like you’re belittling all the Messi fans. Those people will cheer for Messi, and think he’s the best. It’s okay to disagree, disagreeing is what makes us human. And even if Pele had no choice in his fitness in ’62, he shouldn’t sugarcoat his acheivements by saying he won three wWold Cups. I’m sure Messi wouldn’t say he won a World Cup if he spent the majority of the competition on the bench. That’s just my two cents. Pele is the greatest player of all time when you’re looking at statistics, and that will never change. Admittedly though, Messi has a more likeable personality, and that’s a hugely underrated aspect of a footballer. But I’m sure most don’t want to hear that side of football, and are more concerned with the numbers. It’s just the way it is, and I wish we treated players like human beings as opposed to record-breaking machines.

  • Brad

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    Cloud, I was about to ask Pete that same question, lol.

    Roy, I’m sorry too, if it came down to emotions choosing who’s the best, I’d choose Rooney (United fan). But stats are stats, born solely from FACTS. And if being the best player meant having the most goals (Pete, talking to you) then I guess that Muller and Klose were better than Pele, just like Ronaldo? No, no one thinks that, though you are implying it.

    Even back BEFORE Pele played, most of the players’ dream was to represent their country. Yeah, they wanted to play for Madrid or Barca or Manchester United, etc., etc., but they also wanted to play for country. It takes hard work to play professionally at club level, and even more so for your national team, especially if you’re from Brazil, just look at the talent they have on the bench (or Ronaldinho, didn’t even get called up for 2010 South Africa, though admittedly he was in a form slump).

    As for talent? Talent is what helps a player earn such unbelievable stats as 1,284 goals and 3 WC. Roy, not sure if you know, but Pele would most definitely have started the final had he not been injured in the group stages. There’s yet another x factor that no human being can control.

    I do have respect for the Messi fans. It’s just they sound so stupid, they don’t base any argument on pure fact, the only thing they can do is insult Pele and those who support him. And then they go and downgrade the World Cup itself, but imagine if Argentina had won it in South Africa! They’d go all googly-eyed over Messi holding up the trophy!!! They can support Messi all they want, but they have to at least give Pele credit. All they are doing is insulting him, and they sound like 8 year olds doing it.

  • Roy Smith

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    @cloud, I never said the opposition was weak; it’s just that no team could even compare to how powerful the Brazil side was back then. Also, statistics don’t make or break players. It’s about the talent that these players posess. Also, emotion is EVERYTHING in football. As I said before, people talk about statistics all the time, but it’s the passion that counts. If some people choose to think Messi is better than Pele, don’t try to correct them. Just let them be.

  • cloud

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    @pete, if judging a player with WC wins is pathetic, then how come the players play so hard in their Clubs just to get a call up from their nations ??? and in each interview they would always say: IT’S SUCH AN HONOR TO REPRESENT MY COUNTRY. if they consider the WC as a pathetic competition then they would just say NO to any national call ups.

    .. you failed to read my previous post, stating the difference between Club football and WC. I suggest you back read..

  • cloud

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    @roy, i’m sorry, but we’re not basing our discussion with our emotion, it’s about statistics and a whole lot more. Coz if i would be emotional, I would say that Raul is the best of all time. But that’s another arguement.

    .. and you saying that the opposition is weak on 62′ and 70′ is just plain dumb. No offense, but how could u say that ?? it’s like saying that Barca didn’t deserve the UEFA Crown coz United is bitched up with injuries. Or Spain was lucky that the Netherland players lost their minds that day. Or Nico Rosberg won it coz Micheal Schumacher is already old. or Dallas had it easy coz the Heat had ego issues ?? In every sport, you should always respect the opposition.

  • pete

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    world cups apart pele played at an extremely poor level, so its hardly surprising he scored so many goals!!! i mean he moved to the states and no disrespect even today the standard is rubbish, players go there for a big last payday b4 they retire!! david beckham is a big fish in the mls bt in my opinion david beckham is the most overrated player to ever put boots on!! sure he can cross and freekicks are outstanding bt have you ever seen him go past anyone with the ball??? he’s where he is today through very clever marketing and bcoz he’s a good looking guy not bcoz of his footballing ability, judging players on world cup wins is pathetic!! some of the finest players to play the game never even got the chance to play in a world cup bcoz their nations had poor teams so that argument doesn’t hold any weight! its like saying Guivarc’h and Karembeu are greater players than george best,ryan giggs and even messi bcoz they won a world cup! the whole can only be considered great if you do it in a world cup is fabricated by pele himself as he said it abt Ronaldo when he was starting his career and ronaldo in my opinion surpassed him as he is the world cups all time top scorer if you want to be technical abt things!

  • cloud

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    .. let me just add to how one player can influence a team.

    Ronaldo – 2002 WC. He just got off from a career ending injury but managed to help Brazil win it by scoring twice in the FINAL and a total of 8 goals.

    Zidane – 2006 WC – on the twilight of his career and France was very weak that time. With his energy and perseverance and magic, he inspired his team and they got to the Finals and only lost to PK shootout.

    .. and let’s go back to Messi, 2010 WC – he’s at the peak of his abilities just having won his first Ballon D’Or, he was considered a God, but where was he ?? Only 1 goal and they got pounced by Germany 4-0 on the quarters, with Germany having no StarPlayer. Messi is always invisible at Argentina coz again, there’s no Xavi nor Iniesta to feed him.

  • Roy Smith

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    Pele did not win three World Cups. Statistically he did, but in ’62, he sat on the bench while Garrincha did all the work. Also, “Pele’s Brazil” being repeated champs does not make Pele any better. If anything, it just shows how weak the opposition was back then. I’m not saying that Messi’s better than Pele, I think Pele’s records will never be broken. However, being a fan of football means that you support certain players or vertain teams. Do you really need reasons why some believe that Messi is superior to Pele? I personally believe Gianfranco Zola was the best there ever was. His style of play, movement, and creativity is something that no other player will be able to replicate. It’s not fair to ask me to give reasons why I think Zola is better than Pele, because on paper, Pele is far superior. But the giddy child inside of me watching Zola score a goal is what makes me a football fan, and why I think he’s the greatest of all time.

  • Brad

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    Pete, we said right now. Grow up, listen up, and don’t let it go in one year, out the other. As for you, Isaac, same thing. You don’t got to be humble to be great, although it does come as a nice touch. Yeah, sometimes I don’t like the stuff Pele says, but here, on this article, he’s stayed with the absolute facts. We are comparing as to whether or not Messi is better than/equal to Pele. At THIS MOMENT IN TIME, he’s certainly not. Pele had already won both the WCs he’d been in at age 24. Messi is 24 now, hasn’t even got past the quarterfinals, and you can’t give any bull about tougher opposition: it’s the same teams that are the culprits today, as back then.

    Who makes the headlines today? Messi. Who made the headlines BEFORE Messi? PELE.

    And Pete, one thing about Pele, he didn’t let any off the pitch problems come into his on field play. That is exactly what Maradona did(drugs, yes, that can screw your career up; look at what happened at USA 94).

    I’m American. I’ve seen how bad the drugs are in my nation’s favorite pasttimes of gridiron, baseball, basketball, and hockey, especially the first two. I hate drug abusers in those sports, regardless of whether or not they are Manny Ramirez or Alex Rodriguez, or not! And the same goes for Maradona! Imagine how much better he could have been, had he let pure hard work get the job done, rather than ephedrine!

    You barca fans are still going off on the SAME THINGS, of how Pele is an old, confused man, Messi’s done what no other player has ever done before, and Messi does all the techniques known to man. Let me tell you, I love watching Messi play, he’s the best player in the world today, at this moment. But he’s not the best EVER. Pele still is.

    Pele got 1,284 goals in 1,363 appearances. Pele scored 77 of those goals in almost 100 appearances. Pele won 3 of his 4 WCs.

    Another thing, that me, russ ru, and cloud have said repeatedly, yet you guys seem to never hear: Pele is still the best ever player right now. That does NOT mean Messi will never surpass or even equal him. But here’s another thing: Messi’s window is closing fast, with each year, his chance to become the best ever footballer gets smaller and smaller. He has to play in- and WIN- the next 3 WC in 2014, 2018, and 2022.
    But remind me again, when was the last time someone repeated being World Champs? Oh yeah: Pele’s Brazil.

    Alright then, let’s here what nonsense you Messi fans have got to say now, and actually hear the facts that support you saying Messi is better. Oh, and keep it mature, okay? No name calling, cause that only proves me, cloud, and russ ru are right.

  • russ ru

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    @ pete all that us pele fans are sayin is that RIGHT NOW we cannot call messi the best player ever… We NEVER said he won’t be… This is why RIGHT NOW we still feel pele is better. Look through all the comments messi fans, and u will c that brad cloud and i are stating facts, not just randomly rambling.

  • Barca fan

    0 0

    of couse cloud you are pointing different techneques from different players which Messi does all they techneques in one person see the difference

  • cloud

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    @isaac, why resort to personal attacks ?? and what the heck are you saying that Messi has done what no footballer has done on the pitch, can you tell us what that is ??? or let me give u examples:

    – magic feet – we saw that in zidane
    – bulldozing many defenders – Ronaldo
    – super free kicks – CR7/ Beckham
    – intelligent goals – pele/raul

    messi can only prove his skill/gifts if he transfers to another team and if he is still as good as he is in barca.

    .. and isaac, who has reached the 1200 goal mark in the men’s division ??

  • Isaac D Aliyu

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    Brad u r blind with your baseless arguments,messi has done what know footballer has done before in the pitch,and for your so called pele,he is jusy an old man confused and living in past glory,if messi was in his era will he be even recognized.the mark of greatness is humility,action and results,and when you check that out you see what……..MESSI,and please who is making the headlines in football MESSI,brad go get a tv screen and appreciate Gods gift to football as we watch their next barca match

  • pete

    0 0

    pele is fifas darling, the perfect model pro footballer, whereas maradona had his off field problems, diego is without doubt the most talented footballer i ever saw and for me the best, you say its not pele’s fault he played in brazil and he playedin an era with hatchet men,no he didn’t, brazilians in pele’s era weren’t the greatest defenders, also pele played alongside rivelinho, jairzinho, garrincha, gerson, carlos alberto to name a few in what was regarded as the greatest side ever, those brazilian sides would still have won those trophies without pele, would argentina without diego??? not a chance! pele played in great teams but diego made mediocre teams great, as for the xavi iniesta thing, both are 2 of the best midfielders to ever play the game especialy xavi but without messi that barca side wouldn’t be nearly as good as they are, they would still play fantasy football but messi gives them that 20/30% extra, messi may well be in years to come the greatest bt not yet. its maradona (the fans vote not fifa’s)

  • Brad

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    Okay, Russ, make sure I turn 21 first! lol.

    Ibrahim, really? There WAS the almost exact same offside rule back in Pele’s day, or are you just being immature and making a joke on Pele’s age? The only thing that supports you downsizing Pele’s goalscoring achievements is the lack of real defense they had back at the start of his career. But even then, the defenders teams did have were given license by both managers and refs to kick Pele to Kingdom Come. Ronaldo (original from Brazil), Ronaldo (Portuguese version), and Zinedine Zidane all were/are world class themselves, but then again, playing football against Pele would be playing an opponent from outer space, so he’s still got everyone beat.

    Seriously, Messi fans, you guys sound like broken records. Either give up, or give me, Cloud, and Russ ru some facts that can convince us Messi is better than Pele.

  • russ ru

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    Seems common sense is not so common… can’t believe this post still running. @ cloud and brad, drinks are on me!

  • Ibrahim

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    Pele, there is no doubt that there are a lot of superstars better than you exists like Lious Nazario Delima Ronaldo, Zinedine Zidane, and even more, every body knows that your time was like a film and had no regulation as it has now, there was no offside as we know which enabled you to score profusely, however I believe that you only talked about your opinion which is not bad, but at the same time you should not praise your self, because it’s been said “he who praise him self is just like a goat sucked itself”

  • cloud

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    .. yes Brad, that’s also what i noticed. These Barca fans are JUST-NOW-FANS, fans who follow the latest/current champions. They are ignorant to football history. It is evident on this page and any other football discussions, the MESSI FANS only write one-liners and can’t really give correct facts.

    .. and besides, I would never respect Barca as the Champions of Europe. What happened in Arsenal and Madrid is an absolute shame to football. And having said that, Messi and Barca ain’t deserving to hold the trophy.

  • Brad

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    Even with the 4 teams part, that was only the final pool consisting of Brazil, Uruguay, Sweden, and Spain, who had all won their groups in the first round. The 1950 WC really had 13 teams.

    I swear, Cloud, some of these Messi fans must be completely new to football, and jumping on the band wagon. None of them have seen that goal that Pele scored against Sweden in the 1958 final, looping it over a defender, then volleying it end. that takes more technical skills than just running full tilt past a bunch of defenders.

  • cloud

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    daniel, you’re another proof that most messi fans don’t know facts. if you don’t know anything about football, better shut your mouth to prevent yourself from humiliation.

    .. i’ll give you some facts daniel boy, first of all, Pele won the world cup 58′. 62′ and 70′. That ONLY 4 TEAMS you’re talking about is the round robin that happened on the 1950’s world cup.

    .. once again, i agree with brad, 32 teams participating aint that a big difference since we have LESSER TEAMS joining.

    .. and yeah, pele being only 17 years old during the 58 world cup was the best performance of any player in the game of football.

  • Brad

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    Daniel, exactly where are the facts that can support your ill-advised comments. For one, the “little boy” is crap: Pele is a full 4 inches taller than Messi. Also, Pele played in the most important competition of all, the World Cup, just like Messi has. And the fact Pele played in a time where 16 teams played (not four, you nitwit) means that only the bona-fide teams made it to the Cup, nowadays, you’ve got 32 teams, so nations like Honduras and New Zealand are going only to fill in the numbers.

    Pele is still better.

  • Daniel sarpong

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    A four country world cup is different from a thirty two country world cup. Pele come out with better analysis.

  • Daniel sarpong

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    Pele, am really ashamed in you. Can u compare the competitions u played to messi’s own. Messi is above all standards and u are a little boy in front of him in terms of football. Lol.

  • cloud

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    .. i’m glad you mentioned that one Zest. Why in the world did Messi won his 2nd Ballon D’Or when his two team mates have achieved more than him, and that is winning the world cup. I admit that Messi is good, but he ain’t that good. I mentioned this in my previous post that Xavi and Iniesta are such geniuses that whoever striker they will feed will surely score. Just look at Pedro. My arguement is valid since Messi’s performance with Argentina is crap as hell.

    .. Brad, i agree on your point, let’s focus on what Pele and Messi achieved on the same age level. yes, Messi has won many trophies in Club Competition but that’s just it – CLUB. But Pele has done no one has, winning the World Cup 3 times and twice with him as the star.

  • zest

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    Messi wasn’t supposed to win the second Ballon D’ OR, it was supposed to go for either Iniesta or Xavi but Platini and Blatter played some some politics in the it. Guess what, by next yr when it will be time for CR7 to win for the second time that is when they will start showing Xavi or Iniesta superiority.

  • Brad

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    While Messi does have a bunch of great teammates at Argentina, the only teammates he has that can rival those Pele had are at Barca, and as you said, Cloud, Xavi will be retired soon, so that will be a big blow to Messi’s supply lines.

    Messi doesn’t have a Copa America medal, Pele has 1 or 2, I forget. So another fact that shows Pele is better than Messi: Pele has won the “crap competition”. Messi hasn’t. Pele had 2 WC by the time he was Messi’s age. Messi hasn’t even reached the semis with Argentina. X-factors do play a hand in this, but then you also got the pure skill of both players too. Pele had more.

  • cloud

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    @russ, we share the same question. lol ..Why hasn’t messi won anything with Argentina, when in fact he has a lot of good team mates like Higuain, Aguero, Carlos. In football we have this term called, GAME DECIDER, and Messi is usually it, but in Argentina he is almost insivible.

    as far as the future, i don’t see Messi catching Pele’s record. even if he is still 24 years old, he can’t, coz Xavi will retire soon.

  • russ ru

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    @ cloud, no one will answer that one! Lol! @ warro u talk about pele playin with a great team… And thats true but he was the x-factor! Messi is supposed to be the x-factor for argentina, (who by the way have lots players in europe eg mascherano, tevez, aguero etc) my point is argentina aren’t a bad team so why WHY WHY hasn’t the “messiah” delivered at tournaments like the world cup and the copa? Pele had 2 world cups in the bag already by the time he was messi’s age. All i’m sayin is RIGHT NOW pele is still better. RIGHT NOW messi still has to eclipse him for me to admit. Maybe he will, maybe he won’t. We shall see

  • cloud

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    no Messi fan has answered my question:: IF MESS IS SO GOOD AND COPA AMERICA IS A CRAP COMPETITION, THEN WHY HASNT HE WON IT YET ??

  • Brad

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    Yeah, I know he’s young, I know he’s only 24. But the thing is, so many of you Messi fans are being too quick to say he’s already better at this moment in time than Pele ever was.

    As for Pele being on a team of all-stars, whilst Messi is not so lucky, is coincidental. It just happens that Messi has to deal with inferior teammates while Pele didn’t, and no one can control who all turns out purely magnificent or not. You can’t control who happens to be playing in a certain time period or not. Those x factors are by pure coincidence. But facts are pure facts, no bs can happen with solid fact. And the facts say that Pele is better than Messi.

    Also, you’ve got to give me credit: I’ve never said that Messi won’t end up being greater than Pele. I can’t predict the future. It’s just that Pele was better than Messi is today, and yet people are all jumping on O Rei and saying that the “Messiah” is better than him already. Messi has plenty of time to get there. But he’s not there yet, and he’s still got a long way to go.

  • Barca fan

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    What ever you say you dont have a prove of that it dosent matter if Pele scored so mangoals becouse Messi have yet apperd like Pele and it dosent mean if he was there in 3WC that means he is the best Messi has a long way to go he is still young

  • warro

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    i think right now messi is the best player in the world. Pele says win messi wins 3 world cups and scores as many goals as he did, Pele would never win a world cup by him self and he would never score that many goals in la lega , Brazil won the cups and pele was part of the team, just because you country wins a world cup it doesnt mean you were the only one who gave it 100percent on the feild team afford and if messi played in the brazilan leauge no doubt he would break that goal recored and remember his only 24 lots more to go

  • Brad

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    EXTOP, where’s some evidence to that statement? The real phrase is “Maradona? Good. Pele? Better. George? BEST!!!

    No one here that falls on Messi’s side is making any solid argument against Cloud and me, let alone everyone else who knows Pele isn’t just some confused old man who doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Face it people. 3 WCs to none, 1,284 goals in 1,363 appearances to whatever Messi has (I’m not going to look it up, Idk his career stats). SO WHAT if Messi’s got 3 World POYs to Pele’s 1? Pele’s got 3 WORLD CUPS-the only trophy that TRULY matters- to Messi’s NONE. And if you say George Best (being a United fan, it hurts me to say this) is better than Pele, he never even PLAYED in a WC. As for Maradona? Only 1 WC trophy.

    Whatever you say, people, Pele is THE BEST EVER.

  • EKTOP

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    George Best once said that if he was ugly nobody was going to talk about Pele and he is so right.Pele was never the best player first is Maradona second is George Besst and third is Messi.

  • russ ru

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    to brad and cloud you guys read football like i do! Have been sayin all along that messi while being the best RIGHT NOW is nothin without xavi and iniesta. Still feel at least one of them deserved that ballon d’or. Put them in the spanish national team they win @ barca they win! Can we truly say e same for messi? The answer is an OBVIOUS NO! Even tevez is better because he wins trophies no matter where he has played. Face it messi fans, Pele might run his mouth but its the truth… He still the king!

  • cloud

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    .. let me add to what Brad has said. let me just ask you messi fans; HOW LONG IS ONE FOOTBALL SEASON ?? and HOW LONG IS ONE WORLD CUP ?? let me just go straight to the point.

    ..ONE FOOTBALL SEASON is around 9 months; from AUGUST to MAY. A team have a lot of time to develop their tactics and build up chemistry. They have 38 matches to decide who’s champion.

    .. on the other hand a world cup only last for 31 days. ONLY 7 MATCHES to decide the champion. 3 group stage matches and 3 knockout stages and the Final itself. a team or player needs to be 110% in playing those 7 matches.

    .. now, if Messi is that good and the WC is only 7 matches, why haven’t we seen him demolish each opposition they face ?? and, if you messi fans say that brazilian football is shit compared to la liga. then WHY HASNT MESSI WON THE COPA AMERICA ?? They’re not even on third place, and it was played on Argentina. Copa America is lowly competition. Messi would have won it easily but he didn’t. Now can someone explain that to me.

  • Brad

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    Considering the fact that Messi hasn’t even won a WC Golden Ball, let alone the WC trophy itself, Wiz, I would reconsider. Especially as their goal tallies in the Cup are: Pele; 12 in 13 matches. Messi; 1 goal in I believe 8 or 9 matches at most.

    But if you insist upon calling Messi the best ever, which both of you, and many others, obviously are, than I’d wait until his career is over. The fact that Pele played most of his career in Brazil actually isn’t his fault. He attracted interest from the usual culprits in European football: Manchester United, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Liverpool. . . and I know that list doesn’t end there. He’d have definitely left Brazil for Europe had the Brazilian government not called him a national treasure, thereby prohibiting him from transfering. Coincidently, has Messi been called national treasure, in Spain or Argentina, or both? I didn’t think so.

    Pele still would’ve won 3 WC, more than anyone else has, and Messi now can only hope to TIE that record, not BREAK it. But let’s see if the “Messiah” decides to move out of Spain. Let’s face it, Wiz, and you too, Barca fan, along with everyone else: La Liga isn’t as strong as the EPL or Italian Serie A, competition wise. It’s just RM and FCB, and everyone else is cannon fodder. La Liga isn’t that much better than Brazil’s Serie A. And a reminder, about that player of the year award, I believe Johan Cruyff won 3 in a row himself? So does that mean HE was better than Pele. No. Only Dutch fans would say that.

    Whatever you say, the facts are facts. Messi has 3 player of the year awards, but Pele has 1,284 goals in 1,363 matches, a player of the year, AND 3 WCs. And that’s to Messi’s not having any WCs at all. And that right there, is the measure of success. . . no player is complete at all until he has lifted that one trophy.

  • Dis a 9ice transfer zone.

    0 0

    All wat i knw is dat it messi time and their is settlement on WB we need real man 2 lead d fifa chairman nt blantter cheif of ojoro.

  • Robot

    0 0

    Who is Pele?

    Oh, that sicko who never stops praising himself.

  • Wiz

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    At pele’s time brazil have the best team in the world n it is considerd the best ever team, so it shows that pele did just little. N do u know that pele received only 1 best player in world cup. U shudnt count the WC with out the pest player awords, only the WC with the best player aword counts. U talk about xavi n iniesta, messi has greater number of goals n assists too than xavi n iniesta, that means u cant talk about them regarding messi’s success. Remember messi have now 3 world player of the year aword, pele only has 1. No dout pele scored 1000s in brasil, messi wud have scored millions there. Why discuss pele? Brazilians even dont take him as best of brazil. How can he be the best in the world if he not the best in brazil??? I m not saying messi is the best ever, not yet, bt if he take 1 more world player of the year aword he wil be.

  • Barca fan

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    You guys are just talking you ass Pele played for santos which is brazilian foodball and he also played for brazil which is the same technique of foodball Messi began to play spanish football when he was just 12years old which is very different from Agentina even Pele never created a ball and score with no one who is helping him he never played alone and if XAVI AND INIASTA ARE BETTER why do the win with 1-0 because the is no straker the relay on VILLA every player makes a difference

  • Brad

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    Frank, you’re right to some degree, at least, about Pele not playing the players Messi goes against. Messi has nobodies to play against, except for El Classicos and CL matches.

    Pele, meanwhile, played in a much, much, MUCH more physical time. Defenders were given more license to perform leg amputation on Pele and company. Nowadays, especially in La Liga, physicality is frowned upon. Defenders have to think twice before diving in. It’s that split second that costs them, as they contain themselves from committing a foul. Back then, they got away with it. Now they don’t.

    As for Maradona fulfilling Pele’s dream, what dream exactly? The drugs? Losing in the worst WC final ever on a questionable penalty? NO. Pele’s dream was to fulfill his promise to his dad, after Brazil lost the 1950 WC. And he did it, not once, not twice, but THREE times. 1958, 1962, and 1970. And by the way, it was the latter of those three that was the best WC final, in the best WC tournament ever. That’s frank stuff right there.

  • frank

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    pele did not play against the players messi is

    and by the way i do not think maradona is his brother and has done more than pele,i guess maradona has fullfilled pele dream.

  • Brad

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    Exactly. Which is why Messi can’t win a world cup. He doesn’t have Xavi or Iniesta, let alone both, while with Argentina. Pele didn’t need assistance. It just made him look even better when he got it.

  • cloud

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    does any of you remember Pele’s partner during his Santos years ?? My point being, all of us can give credit to Xavi and Iniesta as Messi’s provider but none of us can even mention who helped Pele. I’m going to say this again, MESSI IS NOTHING WITHOUT XAVI AND INIESTA. In fact, those two are so brilliant that they made the rookie Pedro look good. A great player must be good both for club and country. I would say that Xavi is even better than Messi coz he’s the one creating the goals. messi is just a finisher.

  • Brad

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    well, yeah, Bacon, the Brazil squads of Pele’s day are better than both the squads of today and Maradona’s day. But you can’t complain about that, cause that’s just what happened. Still the facts are facts. And Pele pretty much killed any arguments with the goal stats, and also the fact he’s won 3 WCs.

  • Bacon

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    I’m not going to make a decision on who’s better, as I’ve only seen a handful of clips of Pele. Messi certainly is the best player i’ve had the privilege to watch, but as Pele says, his records speak for them selves.

    The comparison, I think, is difficult, if Messi plays his entire career in Brazil i have no doubt he would score more goals then he currently does. Lets face it, its a far weaker league than La Liga.

    Plus the Brazilian teams that Pele played in are held as some of the best teams in footballing history, so were always going to win world cups with or without Pele. The current Argentinian side is poor, so I think saying Pele is better because hes won world cups is an unfair comparison. You may as well say, Pele’s Brazil was better than Messi’s Argentina, obviously a true statement.

    Again, im not judging Messi to be better, just pointing out a couple of things. Please continue…:D

  • Brad

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    Exactly cloud, though you forgot that Pele also gave enough thought to the game to, shall we say, “spread the gospel” in the Home of the Free and the Land of the “soccer”phobic with the New York Cosmos, and he did it the hard way and STILL managed to regularly attract 77,000+ fans for home matches. The only way Messi, or any one else for that matter, can do that in summer times is with massive advertisements, something Pele had to work without.

  • cloud

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    The trademark of a good player is to win the world cup and to be instrumental in winning the world cup is a mark of a GREAT player. Pele technically won 2 world cups, he basically was the single player responsible for those wins. I can never respect Messi due to the fact that he’s still in barcelona, let him transfer to another club and let’s see if he can perform the same. Pele stayed in Santos all his life coz he’s loyal to them, he’s not a mercenary. For me the statement of Pele is not being a sour grape, but only a reaction to many people saying that Messi is the best player of all time. Which is such a lame statement

  • Brad

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    There are people who are humble, Mikel, but they also know when they’re better than others just by looking at facts that are right there in our faces. If there’s anyone who sounds like sour grapes, it’s that narcissist drug abuser (even if he’s now sober, he’s still got the history, whilst Pele does not) we call Diego Maradona. Unless you’ve forgotten the time when he told us all to s–k it, along with some other incidents. If Messi were truly going to be better than Pele, than he would’ve already won both of the WCs he’s played in, not to mention score over 5 goals in each. The 1,000 goal part has to wait, but it will take longer than it took Pele to do it. Theoretically Messi only has 2 WCs left in his career, and only 1 goal in, what, around 10 games? Pele only played 4 matches in ’58, and yet scored 6 times, his WC tally is 12 in 13. Pele has an edge over Messi. He was better than Messi from a younger age.

  • peleng

    0 0

    As pele still live, his mouth will never close to say about his victory……he so different if compare to other legend

  • Mikel musenga

    0 0

    I pref messi i the world best playe dat why his not bosting im self.

  • russ ru

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    @ brad so TECHNICALLY ronaldo only won one world cup. He was in e squad in ’94… Messi will be better than maradona but pele is king! Of that there is no doubt…

  • yenovarty

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    pele sure sounds like sour grape.What a shame i have lost all respect for him.Mr Pele im so happy to here that the factory is closed cuz soccer world dont need egoistic sick people like e,u are not even worthy to tie Messis shoelaces

  • Brad

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    I doubt Messi will win 3 WC trophies in his lifetime. Sure, Pele technically only won 2, but he was on the squad for the winning side in ’62. And as for the goal record. . . Messi will at least get close to 1,284 goals almost without a doubt, but it’ll probably take more than 1,363 matches for him to do it.

  • Onks Mbangs

    0 0

    Players n former players r all in competition with Messi bt i’v never heard hm sayn he is competing with making n breakin records….wat i allways hear frm Messi is wen he says he wants 2 win trophies with Argentina

  • Onks Mbangs

    0 0

    Players n former players r all in competition with Messi bt i’v never heard hm sayn he is competing with making n breakin records….wat i allways hear frm Messi is wen he says he wants 2 win trophies with Argentina

  • Brad

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    I doubt Messi will win 3 WC trophies in his lifetime. Sure, Pele technically only won 2, but he was on the squad for the winning side in ’62. And as for the goal record. . . Messi will at least get close to 1,284 goals almost without a doubt, but it’ll probably take more than 1,363 matches for him to do it.

  • yenovarty

    0 0

    pele sure sounds like sour grape.What a shame i have lost all respect for him.Mr Pele im so happy to here that the factory is closed cuz soccer world dont need egoistic sick people like e,u are not even worthy to tie Messis shoelaces

  • russ ru

    0 0

    @ brad so TECHNICALLY ronaldo only won one world cup. He was in e squad in ’94… Messi will be better than maradona but pele is king! Of that there is no doubt…

  • Mikel musenga

    0 0

    I pref messi i the world best playe dat why his not bosting im self.

  • peleng

    0 0

    As pele still live, his mouth will never close to say about his victory……he so different if compare to other legend

  • Brad

    0 0

    There are people who are humble, Mikel, but they also know when they’re better than others just by looking at facts that are right there in our faces. If there’s anyone who sounds like sour grapes, it’s that narcissist drug abuser (even if he’s now sober, he’s still got the history, whilst Pele does not) we call Diego Maradona. Unless you’ve forgotten the time when he told us all to s–k it, along with some other incidents. If Messi were truly going to be better than Pele, than he would’ve already won both of the WCs he’s played in, not to mention score over 5 goals in each. The 1,000 goal part has to wait, but it will take longer than it took Pele to do it. Theoretically Messi only has 2 WCs left in his career, and only 1 goal in, what, around 10 games? Pele only played 4 matches in ’58, and yet scored 6 times, his WC tally is 12 in 13. Pele has an edge over Messi. He was better than Messi from a younger age.

  • cloud

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    The trademark of a good player is to win the world cup and to be instrumental in winning the world cup is a mark of a GREAT player. Pele technically won 2 world cups, he basically was the single player responsible for those wins. I can never respect Messi due to the fact that he’s still in barcelona, let him transfer to another club and let’s see if he can perform the same. Pele stayed in Santos all his life coz he’s loyal to them, he’s not a mercenary. For me the statement of Pele is not being a sour grape, but only a reaction to many people saying that Messi is the best player of all time. Which is such a lame statement

  • Brad

    0 0

    Exactly cloud, though you forgot that Pele also gave enough thought to the game to, shall we say, “spread the gospel” in the Home of the Free and the Land of the “soccer”phobic with the New York Cosmos, and he did it the hard way and STILL managed to regularly attract 77,000+ fans for home matches. The only way Messi, or any one else for that matter, can do that in summer times is with massive advertisements, something Pele had to work without.

  • Bacon

    0 0

    I’m not going to make a decision on who’s better, as I’ve only seen a handful of clips of Pele. Messi certainly is the best player i’ve had the privilege to watch, but as Pele says, his records speak for them selves.

    The comparison, I think, is difficult, if Messi plays his entire career in Brazil i have no doubt he would score more goals then he currently does. Lets face it, its a far weaker league than La Liga.

    Plus the Brazilian teams that Pele played in are held as some of the best teams in footballing history, so were always going to win world cups with or without Pele. The current Argentinian side is poor, so I think saying Pele is better because hes won world cups is an unfair comparison. You may as well say, Pele’s Brazil was better than Messi’s Argentina, obviously a true statement.

    Again, im not judging Messi to be better, just pointing out a couple of things. Please continue…:D

  • Brad

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    well, yeah, Bacon, the Brazil squads of Pele’s day are better than both the squads of today and Maradona’s day. But you can’t complain about that, cause that’s just what happened. Still the facts are facts. And Pele pretty much killed any arguments with the goal stats, and also the fact he’s won 3 WCs.

  • cloud

    0 0

    does any of you remember Pele’s partner during his Santos years ?? My point being, all of us can give credit to Xavi and Iniesta as Messi’s provider but none of us can even mention who helped Pele. I’m going to say this again, MESSI IS NOTHING WITHOUT XAVI AND INIESTA. In fact, those two are so brilliant that they made the rookie Pedro look good. A great player must be good both for club and country. I would say that Xavi is even better than Messi coz he’s the one creating the goals. messi is just a finisher.

  • Brad

    0 0

    Exactly. Which is why Messi can’t win a world cup. He doesn’t have Xavi or Iniesta, let alone both, while with Argentina. Pele didn’t need assistance. It just made him look even better when he got it.

  • frank

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    pele did not play against the players messi is

    and by the way i do not think maradona is his brother and has done more than pele,i guess maradona has fullfilled pele dream.

  • Brad

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    Frank, you’re right to some degree, at least, about Pele not playing the players Messi goes against. Messi has nobodies to play against, except for El Classicos and CL matches.

    Pele, meanwhile, played in a much, much, MUCH more physical time. Defenders were given more license to perform leg amputation on Pele and company. Nowadays, especially in La Liga, physicality is frowned upon. Defenders have to think twice before diving in. It’s that split second that costs them, as they contain themselves from committing a foul. Back then, they got away with it. Now they don’t.

    As for Maradona fulfilling Pele’s dream, what dream exactly? The drugs? Losing in the worst WC final ever on a questionable penalty? NO. Pele’s dream was to fulfill his promise to his dad, after Brazil lost the 1950 WC. And he did it, not once, not twice, but THREE times. 1958, 1962, and 1970. And by the way, it was the latter of those three that was the best WC final, in the best WC tournament ever. That’s frank stuff right there.

  • Barca fan

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    You guys are just talking you ass Pele played for santos which is brazilian foodball and he also played for brazil which is the same technique of foodball Messi began to play spanish football when he was just 12years old which is very different from Agentina even Pele never created a ball and score with no one who is helping him he never played alone and if XAVI AND INIASTA ARE BETTER why do the win with 1-0 because the is no straker the relay on VILLA every player makes a difference

  • Wiz

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    At pele’s time brazil have the best team in the world n it is considerd the best ever team, so it shows that pele did just little. N do u know that pele received only 1 best player in world cup. U shudnt count the WC with out the pest player awords, only the WC with the best player aword counts. U talk about xavi n iniesta, messi has greater number of goals n assists too than xavi n iniesta, that means u cant talk about them regarding messi’s success. Remember messi have now 3 world player of the year aword, pele only has 1. No dout pele scored 1000s in brasil, messi wud have scored millions there. Why discuss pele? Brazilians even dont take him as best of brazil. How can he be the best in the world if he not the best in brazil??? I m not saying messi is the best ever, not yet, bt if he take 1 more world player of the year aword he wil be.

  • Robot

    0 0

    Who is Pele?

    Oh, that sicko who never stops praising himself.

  • Dis a 9ice transfer zone.

    0 0

    All wat i knw is dat it messi time and their is settlement on WB we need real man 2 lead d fifa chairman nt blantter cheif of ojoro.

  • Brad

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    Considering the fact that Messi hasn’t even won a WC Golden Ball, let alone the WC trophy itself, Wiz, I would reconsider. Especially as their goal tallies in the Cup are: Pele; 12 in 13 matches. Messi; 1 goal in I believe 8 or 9 matches at most.

    But if you insist upon calling Messi the best ever, which both of you, and many others, obviously are, than I’d wait until his career is over. The fact that Pele played most of his career in Brazil actually isn’t his fault. He attracted interest from the usual culprits in European football: Manchester United, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Liverpool. . . and I know that list doesn’t end there. He’d have definitely left Brazil for Europe had the Brazilian government not called him a national treasure, thereby prohibiting him from transfering. Coincidently, has Messi been called national treasure, in Spain or Argentina, or both? I didn’t think so.

    Pele still would’ve won 3 WC, more than anyone else has, and Messi now can only hope to TIE that record, not BREAK it. But let’s see if the “Messiah” decides to move out of Spain. Let’s face it, Wiz, and you too, Barca fan, along with everyone else: La Liga isn’t as strong as the EPL or Italian Serie A, competition wise. It’s just RM and FCB, and everyone else is cannon fodder. La Liga isn’t that much better than Brazil’s Serie A. And a reminder, about that player of the year award, I believe Johan Cruyff won 3 in a row himself? So does that mean HE was better than Pele. No. Only Dutch fans would say that.

    Whatever you say, the facts are facts. Messi has 3 player of the year awards, but Pele has 1,284 goals in 1,363 matches, a player of the year, AND 3 WCs. And that’s to Messi’s not having any WCs at all. And that right there, is the measure of success. . . no player is complete at all until he has lifted that one trophy.

  • cloud

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    .. let me add to what Brad has said. let me just ask you messi fans; HOW LONG IS ONE FOOTBALL SEASON ?? and HOW LONG IS ONE WORLD CUP ?? let me just go straight to the point.

    ..ONE FOOTBALL SEASON is around 9 months; from AUGUST to MAY. A team have a lot of time to develop their tactics and build up chemistry. They have 38 matches to decide who’s champion.

    .. on the other hand a world cup only last for 31 days. ONLY 7 MATCHES to decide the champion. 3 group stage matches and 3 knockout stages and the Final itself. a team or player needs to be 110% in playing those 7 matches.

    .. now, if Messi is that good and the WC is only 7 matches, why haven’t we seen him demolish each opposition they face ?? and, if you messi fans say that brazilian football is shit compared to la liga. then WHY HASNT MESSI WON THE COPA AMERICA ?? They’re not even on third place, and it was played on Argentina. Copa America is lowly competition. Messi would have won it easily but he didn’t. Now can someone explain that to me.

  • russ ru

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    to brad and cloud you guys read football like i do! Have been sayin all along that messi while being the best RIGHT NOW is nothin without xavi and iniesta. Still feel at least one of them deserved that ballon d’or. Put them in the spanish national team they win @ barca they win! Can we truly say e same for messi? The answer is an OBVIOUS NO! Even tevez is better because he wins trophies no matter where he has played. Face it messi fans, Pele might run his mouth but its the truth… He still the king!

  • EKTOP

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    George Best once said that if he was ugly nobody was going to talk about Pele and he is so right.Pele was never the best player first is Maradona second is George Besst and third is Messi.

  • Brad

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    EXTOP, where’s some evidence to that statement? The real phrase is “Maradona? Good. Pele? Better. George? BEST!!!

    No one here that falls on Messi’s side is making any solid argument against Cloud and me, let alone everyone else who knows Pele isn’t just some confused old man who doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Face it people. 3 WCs to none, 1,284 goals in 1,363 appearances to whatever Messi has (I’m not going to look it up, Idk his career stats). SO WHAT if Messi’s got 3 World POYs to Pele’s 1? Pele’s got 3 WORLD CUPS-the only trophy that TRULY matters- to Messi’s NONE. And if you say George Best (being a United fan, it hurts me to say this) is better than Pele, he never even PLAYED in a WC. As for Maradona? Only 1 WC trophy.

    Whatever you say, people, Pele is THE BEST EVER.

  • warro

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    i think right now messi is the best player in the world. Pele says win messi wins 3 world cups and scores as many goals as he did, Pele would never win a world cup by him self and he would never score that many goals in la lega , Brazil won the cups and pele was part of the team, just because you country wins a world cup it doesnt mean you were the only one who gave it 100percent on the feild team afford and if messi played in the brazilan leauge no doubt he would break that goal recored and remember his only 24 lots more to go

  • Barca fan

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    What ever you say you dont have a prove of that it dosent matter if Pele scored so mangoals becouse Messi have yet apperd like Pele and it dosent mean if he was there in 3WC that means he is the best Messi has a long way to go he is still young

  • Brad

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    Yeah, I know he’s young, I know he’s only 24. But the thing is, so many of you Messi fans are being too quick to say he’s already better at this moment in time than Pele ever was.

    As for Pele being on a team of all-stars, whilst Messi is not so lucky, is coincidental. It just happens that Messi has to deal with inferior teammates while Pele didn’t, and no one can control who all turns out purely magnificent or not. You can’t control who happens to be playing in a certain time period or not. Those x factors are by pure coincidence. But facts are pure facts, no bs can happen with solid fact. And the facts say that Pele is better than Messi.

    Also, you’ve got to give me credit: I’ve never said that Messi won’t end up being greater than Pele. I can’t predict the future. It’s just that Pele was better than Messi is today, and yet people are all jumping on O Rei and saying that the “Messiah” is better than him already. Messi has plenty of time to get there. But he’s not there yet, and he’s still got a long way to go.

  • cloud

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    no Messi fan has answered my question:: IF MESS IS SO GOOD AND COPA AMERICA IS A CRAP COMPETITION, THEN WHY HASNT HE WON IT YET ??

  • russ ru

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    @ cloud, no one will answer that one! Lol! @ warro u talk about pele playin with a great team… And thats true but he was the x-factor! Messi is supposed to be the x-factor for argentina, (who by the way have lots players in europe eg mascherano, tevez, aguero etc) my point is argentina aren’t a bad team so why WHY WHY hasn’t the “messiah” delivered at tournaments like the world cup and the copa? Pele had 2 world cups in the bag already by the time he was messi’s age. All i’m sayin is RIGHT NOW pele is still better. RIGHT NOW messi still has to eclipse him for me to admit. Maybe he will, maybe he won’t. We shall see

  • cloud

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    @russ, we share the same question. lol ..Why hasn’t messi won anything with Argentina, when in fact he has a lot of good team mates like Higuain, Aguero, Carlos. In football we have this term called, GAME DECIDER, and Messi is usually it, but in Argentina he is almost insivible.

    as far as the future, i don’t see Messi catching Pele’s record. even if he is still 24 years old, he can’t, coz Xavi will retire soon.

  • Brad

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    While Messi does have a bunch of great teammates at Argentina, the only teammates he has that can rival those Pele had are at Barca, and as you said, Cloud, Xavi will be retired soon, so that will be a big blow to Messi’s supply lines.

    Messi doesn’t have a Copa America medal, Pele has 1 or 2, I forget. So another fact that shows Pele is better than Messi: Pele has won the “crap competition”. Messi hasn’t. Pele had 2 WC by the time he was Messi’s age. Messi hasn’t even reached the semis with Argentina. X-factors do play a hand in this, but then you also got the pure skill of both players too. Pele had more.

  • zest

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    Messi wasn’t supposed to win the second Ballon D’ OR, it was supposed to go for either Iniesta or Xavi but Platini and Blatter played some some politics in the it. Guess what, by next yr when it will be time for CR7 to win for the second time that is when they will start showing Xavi or Iniesta superiority.

  • cloud

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    .. i’m glad you mentioned that one Zest. Why in the world did Messi won his 2nd Ballon D’Or when his two team mates have achieved more than him, and that is winning the world cup. I admit that Messi is good, but he ain’t that good. I mentioned this in my previous post that Xavi and Iniesta are such geniuses that whoever striker they will feed will surely score. Just look at Pedro. My arguement is valid since Messi’s performance with Argentina is crap as hell.

    .. Brad, i agree on your point, let’s focus on what Pele and Messi achieved on the same age level. yes, Messi has won many trophies in Club Competition but that’s just it – CLUB. But Pele has done no one has, winning the World Cup 3 times and twice with him as the star.

  • Daniel sarpong

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    Pele, am really ashamed in you. Can u compare the competitions u played to messi’s own. Messi is above all standards and u are a little boy in front of him in terms of football. Lol.

  • Daniel sarpong

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    A four country world cup is different from a thirty two country world cup. Pele come out with better analysis.

  • Brad

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    Daniel, exactly where are the facts that can support your ill-advised comments. For one, the “little boy” is crap: Pele is a full 4 inches taller than Messi. Also, Pele played in the most important competition of all, the World Cup, just like Messi has. And the fact Pele played in a time where 16 teams played (not four, you nitwit) means that only the bona-fide teams made it to the Cup, nowadays, you’ve got 32 teams, so nations like Honduras and New Zealand are going only to fill in the numbers.

    Pele is still better.

  • cloud

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    daniel, you’re another proof that most messi fans don’t know facts. if you don’t know anything about football, better shut your mouth to prevent yourself from humiliation.

    .. i’ll give you some facts daniel boy, first of all, Pele won the world cup 58′. 62′ and 70′. That ONLY 4 TEAMS you’re talking about is the round robin that happened on the 1950’s world cup.

    .. once again, i agree with brad, 32 teams participating aint that a big difference since we have LESSER TEAMS joining.

    .. and yeah, pele being only 17 years old during the 58 world cup was the best performance of any player in the game of football.

  • Brad

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    Even with the 4 teams part, that was only the final pool consisting of Brazil, Uruguay, Sweden, and Spain, who had all won their groups in the first round. The 1950 WC really had 13 teams.

    I swear, Cloud, some of these Messi fans must be completely new to football, and jumping on the band wagon. None of them have seen that goal that Pele scored against Sweden in the 1958 final, looping it over a defender, then volleying it end. that takes more technical skills than just running full tilt past a bunch of defenders.

  • cloud

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    .. yes Brad, that’s also what i noticed. These Barca fans are JUST-NOW-FANS, fans who follow the latest/current champions. They are ignorant to football history. It is evident on this page and any other football discussions, the MESSI FANS only write one-liners and can’t really give correct facts.

    .. and besides, I would never respect Barca as the Champions of Europe. What happened in Arsenal and Madrid is an absolute shame to football. And having said that, Messi and Barca ain’t deserving to hold the trophy.

  • Ibrahim

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    Pele, there is no doubt that there are a lot of superstars better than you exists like Lious Nazario Delima Ronaldo, Zinedine Zidane, and even more, every body knows that your time was like a film and had no regulation as it has now, there was no offside as we know which enabled you to score profusely, however I believe that you only talked about your opinion which is not bad, but at the same time you should not praise your self, because it’s been said “he who praise him self is just like a goat sucked itself”

  • russ ru

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    Seems common sense is not so common… can’t believe this post still running. @ cloud and brad, drinks are on me!

  • Brad

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    Okay, Russ, make sure I turn 21 first! lol.

    Ibrahim, really? There WAS the almost exact same offside rule back in Pele’s day, or are you just being immature and making a joke on Pele’s age? The only thing that supports you downsizing Pele’s goalscoring achievements is the lack of real defense they had back at the start of his career. But even then, the defenders teams did have were given license by both managers and refs to kick Pele to Kingdom Come. Ronaldo (original from Brazil), Ronaldo (Portuguese version), and Zinedine Zidane all were/are world class themselves, but then again, playing football against Pele would be playing an opponent from outer space, so he’s still got everyone beat.

    Seriously, Messi fans, you guys sound like broken records. Either give up, or give me, Cloud, and Russ ru some facts that can convince us Messi is better than Pele.

  • pete

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    pele is fifas darling, the perfect model pro footballer, whereas maradona had his off field problems, diego is without doubt the most talented footballer i ever saw and for me the best, you say its not pele’s fault he played in brazil and he playedin an era with hatchet men,no he didn’t, brazilians in pele’s era weren’t the greatest defenders, also pele played alongside rivelinho, jairzinho, garrincha, gerson, carlos alberto to name a few in what was regarded as the greatest side ever, those brazilian sides would still have won those trophies without pele, would argentina without diego??? not a chance! pele played in great teams but diego made mediocre teams great, as for the xavi iniesta thing, both are 2 of the best midfielders to ever play the game especialy xavi but without messi that barca side wouldn’t be nearly as good as they are, they would still play fantasy football but messi gives them that 20/30% extra, messi may well be in years to come the greatest bt not yet. its maradona (the fans vote not fifa’s)

  • Isaac D Aliyu

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    Brad u r blind with your baseless arguments,messi has done what know footballer has done before in the pitch,and for your so called pele,he is jusy an old man confused and living in past glory,if messi was in his era will he be even recognized.the mark of greatness is humility,action and results,and when you check that out you see what……..MESSI,and please who is making the headlines in football MESSI,brad go get a tv screen and appreciate Gods gift to football as we watch their next barca match

  • cloud

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    @isaac, why resort to personal attacks ?? and what the heck are you saying that Messi has done what no footballer has done on the pitch, can you tell us what that is ??? or let me give u examples:

    – magic feet – we saw that in zidane
    – bulldozing many defenders – Ronaldo
    – super free kicks – CR7/ Beckham
    – intelligent goals – pele/raul

    messi can only prove his skill/gifts if he transfers to another team and if he is still as good as he is in barca.

    .. and isaac, who has reached the 1200 goal mark in the men’s division ??

  • Barca fan

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    of couse cloud you are pointing different techneques from different players which Messi does all they techneques in one person see the difference

  • russ ru

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    @ pete all that us pele fans are sayin is that RIGHT NOW we cannot call messi the best player ever… We NEVER said he won’t be… This is why RIGHT NOW we still feel pele is better. Look through all the comments messi fans, and u will c that brad cloud and i are stating facts, not just randomly rambling.

  • Brad

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    Pete, we said right now. Grow up, listen up, and don’t let it go in one year, out the other. As for you, Isaac, same thing. You don’t got to be humble to be great, although it does come as a nice touch. Yeah, sometimes I don’t like the stuff Pele says, but here, on this article, he’s stayed with the absolute facts. We are comparing as to whether or not Messi is better than/equal to Pele. At THIS MOMENT IN TIME, he’s certainly not. Pele had already won both the WCs he’d been in at age 24. Messi is 24 now, hasn’t even got past the quarterfinals, and you can’t give any bull about tougher opposition: it’s the same teams that are the culprits today, as back then.

    Who makes the headlines today? Messi. Who made the headlines BEFORE Messi? PELE.

    And Pete, one thing about Pele, he didn’t let any off the pitch problems come into his on field play. That is exactly what Maradona did(drugs, yes, that can screw your career up; look at what happened at USA 94).

    I’m American. I’ve seen how bad the drugs are in my nation’s favorite pasttimes of gridiron, baseball, basketball, and hockey, especially the first two. I hate drug abusers in those sports, regardless of whether or not they are Manny Ramirez or Alex Rodriguez, or not! And the same goes for Maradona! Imagine how much better he could have been, had he let pure hard work get the job done, rather than ephedrine!

    You barca fans are still going off on the SAME THINGS, of how Pele is an old, confused man, Messi’s done what no other player has ever done before, and Messi does all the techniques known to man. Let me tell you, I love watching Messi play, he’s the best player in the world today, at this moment. But he’s not the best EVER. Pele still is.

    Pele got 1,284 goals in 1,363 appearances. Pele scored 77 of those goals in almost 100 appearances. Pele won 3 of his 4 WCs.

    Another thing, that me, russ ru, and cloud have said repeatedly, yet you guys seem to never hear: Pele is still the best ever player right now. That does NOT mean Messi will never surpass or even equal him. But here’s another thing: Messi’s window is closing fast, with each year, his chance to become the best ever footballer gets smaller and smaller. He has to play in- and WIN- the next 3 WC in 2014, 2018, and 2022.
    But remind me again, when was the last time someone repeated being World Champs? Oh yeah: Pele’s Brazil.

    Alright then, let’s here what nonsense you Messi fans have got to say now, and actually hear the facts that support you saying Messi is better. Oh, and keep it mature, okay? No name calling, cause that only proves me, cloud, and russ ru are right.

  • Roy Smith

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    Pele did not win three World Cups. Statistically he did, but in ’62, he sat on the bench while Garrincha did all the work. Also, “Pele’s Brazil” being repeated champs does not make Pele any better. If anything, it just shows how weak the opposition was back then. I’m not saying that Messi’s better than Pele, I think Pele’s records will never be broken. However, being a fan of football means that you support certain players or vertain teams. Do you really need reasons why some believe that Messi is superior to Pele? I personally believe Gianfranco Zola was the best there ever was. His style of play, movement, and creativity is something that no other player will be able to replicate. It’s not fair to ask me to give reasons why I think Zola is better than Pele, because on paper, Pele is far superior. But the giddy child inside of me watching Zola score a goal is what makes me a football fan, and why I think he’s the greatest of all time.

  • cloud

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    .. let me just add to how one player can influence a team.

    Ronaldo – 2002 WC. He just got off from a career ending injury but managed to help Brazil win it by scoring twice in the FINAL and a total of 8 goals.

    Zidane – 2006 WC – on the twilight of his career and France was very weak that time. With his energy and perseverance and magic, he inspired his team and they got to the Finals and only lost to PK shootout.

    .. and let’s go back to Messi, 2010 WC – he’s at the peak of his abilities just having won his first Ballon D’Or, he was considered a God, but where was he ?? Only 1 goal and they got pounced by Germany 4-0 on the quarters, with Germany having no StarPlayer. Messi is always invisible at Argentina coz again, there’s no Xavi nor Iniesta to feed him.

  • pete

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    world cups apart pele played at an extremely poor level, so its hardly surprising he scored so many goals!!! i mean he moved to the states and no disrespect even today the standard is rubbish, players go there for a big last payday b4 they retire!! david beckham is a big fish in the mls bt in my opinion david beckham is the most overrated player to ever put boots on!! sure he can cross and freekicks are outstanding bt have you ever seen him go past anyone with the ball??? he’s where he is today through very clever marketing and bcoz he’s a good looking guy not bcoz of his footballing ability, judging players on world cup wins is pathetic!! some of the finest players to play the game never even got the chance to play in a world cup bcoz their nations had poor teams so that argument doesn’t hold any weight! its like saying Guivarc’h and Karembeu are greater players than george best,ryan giggs and even messi bcoz they won a world cup! the whole can only be considered great if you do it in a world cup is fabricated by pele himself as he said it abt Ronaldo when he was starting his career and ronaldo in my opinion surpassed him as he is the world cups all time top scorer if you want to be technical abt things!

  • cloud

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    @roy, i’m sorry, but we’re not basing our discussion with our emotion, it’s about statistics and a whole lot more. Coz if i would be emotional, I would say that Raul is the best of all time. But that’s another arguement.

    .. and you saying that the opposition is weak on 62′ and 70′ is just plain dumb. No offense, but how could u say that ?? it’s like saying that Barca didn’t deserve the UEFA Crown coz United is bitched up with injuries. Or Spain was lucky that the Netherland players lost their minds that day. Or Nico Rosberg won it coz Micheal Schumacher is already old. or Dallas had it easy coz the Heat had ego issues ?? In every sport, you should always respect the opposition.

  • cloud

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    @pete, if judging a player with WC wins is pathetic, then how come the players play so hard in their Clubs just to get a call up from their nations ??? and in each interview they would always say: IT’S SUCH AN HONOR TO REPRESENT MY COUNTRY. if they consider the WC as a pathetic competition then they would just say NO to any national call ups.

    .. you failed to read my previous post, stating the difference between Club football and WC. I suggest you back read..

  • Roy Smith

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    @cloud, I never said the opposition was weak; it’s just that no team could even compare to how powerful the Brazil side was back then. Also, statistics don’t make or break players. It’s about the talent that these players posess. Also, emotion is EVERYTHING in football. As I said before, people talk about statistics all the time, but it’s the passion that counts. If some people choose to think Messi is better than Pele, don’t try to correct them. Just let them be.

  • Brad

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    Cloud, I was about to ask Pete that same question, lol.

    Roy, I’m sorry too, if it came down to emotions choosing who’s the best, I’d choose Rooney (United fan). But stats are stats, born solely from FACTS. And if being the best player meant having the most goals (Pete, talking to you) then I guess that Muller and Klose were better than Pele, just like Ronaldo? No, no one thinks that, though you are implying it.

    Even back BEFORE Pele played, most of the players’ dream was to represent their country. Yeah, they wanted to play for Madrid or Barca or Manchester United, etc., etc., but they also wanted to play for country. It takes hard work to play professionally at club level, and even more so for your national team, especially if you’re from Brazil, just look at the talent they have on the bench (or Ronaldinho, didn’t even get called up for 2010 South Africa, though admittedly he was in a form slump).

    As for talent? Talent is what helps a player earn such unbelievable stats as 1,284 goals and 3 WC. Roy, not sure if you know, but Pele would most definitely have started the final had he not been injured in the group stages. There’s yet another x factor that no human being can control.

    I do have respect for the Messi fans. It’s just they sound so stupid, they don’t base any argument on pure fact, the only thing they can do is insult Pele and those who support him. And then they go and downgrade the World Cup itself, but imagine if Argentina had won it in South Africa! They’d go all googly-eyed over Messi holding up the trophy!!! They can support Messi all they want, but they have to at least give Pele credit. All they are doing is insulting him, and they sound like 8 year olds doing it.

  • Roy Smith

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    @Brad, No offence, but it seems like you’re belittling all the Messi fans. Those people will cheer for Messi, and think he’s the best. It’s okay to disagree, disagreeing is what makes us human. And even if Pele had no choice in his fitness in ’62, he shouldn’t sugarcoat his acheivements by saying he won three wWold Cups. I’m sure Messi wouldn’t say he won a World Cup if he spent the majority of the competition on the bench. That’s just my two cents. Pele is the greatest player of all time when you’re looking at statistics, and that will never change. Admittedly though, Messi has a more likeable personality, and that’s a hugely underrated aspect of a footballer. But I’m sure most don’t want to hear that side of football, and are more concerned with the numbers. It’s just the way it is, and I wish we treated players like human beings as opposed to record-breaking machines.

  • russ ru

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    @ roy, you just said “Pele is the greatest
    player of all time when you’re looking
    at statistics, and that will never change.” and this is all that we pele fans have been sayin. And be honest messi fans had he won a copa or a world cup, you wouldn’t be callin them “crappy” competitions.

  • cloud

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    @roy and all messi fans … .me, brad and russ might sound like we’re shoving our opinions down your throats, but we actually don’t, it’s just that the facts and statistics are right before our very eyes. any NEUTRAL can google it and the result is still the same. And it’s ridiculous at best that the messi fans still insist that Messi is better than Pele.

    .. this is sports we’re talking about here, players are judged by the trophies they’ve won and how they won it. Statistics won’t lie.

    .. and as for messi’s future, yes, he has the potential to beat Pele’s record, but, the way things are AT THE MOMENT, Messi still has to prove himself in the international level. And on that sense, Pele is still on top of everyone else.

    .. and for you Messi fans, please don’t ever downgrade the World Cup. Diego Maradona attained god-status in argentina coz he won it. Sir Bobby Charlton and Bobby Moore are immortals in England. Please use the head rather than emotion.

  • Roy Smith

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    @cloud, “all Messi fans”?

    Are you implying that every single Messi fan will tell you Messi is better than Pele?

    “players are judged by the trophies they won and how they won it”

    How about Van Persie? He’s the best forward in the entire EPL, and he’s yet to win a major trophy in his career. Yes, he’s technically won the FA Cup, but he was injured for the final, and you said that how the player won the trophy goes in to question.

    You’re right that statistics show that Pele’s better than Messi, but you’re wrong to tell everyone that they are not allowed to believe that Messi’s better than Pele, and need proof to validate their opinion. After all, these Messi fans rarely (admittedly, a few are a bit dumb) said that statistically, Messi was superior to Pele. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

  • Brad

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    Roy, I never meant to belittle the Messi fans! I think you’ll find that many of their comments typically are the same: insulting Pele, but not giving any real, solid facts to prove Messi is better!

    Also, I’ve said before that having a humble attitude does help with your image as a footballer. Pele does sound arrogant, even though he has stated the facts. Messi doesn’t go around talking like that; he sticks with “how do I get better than I am now?” Pele claims to be the best, and I am just one to support him on it. And really, I believe it was FIFA’s idea to give WC medals to all players who had been on the squad of a winning team, yet didn’t (or couldn’t) play in the final.

    I like that bit about “Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.” Thing is, I think some people saw one piece of beauty, but didn’t (and still don’t) want to see an undoubtedly bigger piece.

    I think this can now bring this conversation to a close. . . . for now.

  • Franco 11

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    u know wat guys iv read wat all of you had to say and before i even strat im a major messi fan and truth is i havent become a fan coz he ws rated or is rated the best in the world bt because hes proved to be.no offence on pele bt to win a world cup teakes team effort and its true back then very few countries were as strong as brazil bt soccers evolved over the years and actually players have learnt to boost their playing abilities because technolgy has helped.bt heres the highlight excuse the language bt messi’s still dng the same shit pele did in a more complex world of football and hes making it seem easy and thrice as fun to watch.despite everythng abt his built being against his soccer abilities he still will do anythng with the ball that maradona,pele or even cristiano could do.and if scoring and world cups is all that makes footballers famous then the game is only doomed to favour strikers and which we all no that cant be true.fact is Messi is Gods gift to football and until i live to see another man entertain the crowd display shear brilliance and be so humble abt it \messi will forever hold a part in evry football spectators hart even his haters.js rmbr brad,cloud and all of y’all jealousy is love and hate at the same time.peace

  • Steve-o

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    I wish people would stop going on about Messi! There have been many brilliant footballers over the years and messi is there or there abouts with some of them, but all this ‘Messi is God’s gift to football’ and making him out to be some sort of Messiah is, to be honest starting to make me a little sick. I often watch matches where he plays and ‘he runs through defences like they weren’t there’ ‘he is unstoppable on the ball’ etc etc is often the sort of comments made, but more often than not the defenders back away and won’t commit to a tackle (probably because of the reputation Messi has had built up for him by the media) on the rare occasion that a defender has stood him up and made a tackle he is stopped. Defenders need to forget about his reputation, see him as just another player and commit to there tackles! Messi would then soon stop getting as much joy/luck on the ball and Barcelona would have to turn to some of their other talented players!

  • russ ru

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    no one disputes messi’s talent franco… Seriously have you read any of these posts before you jus started yapping? Love it or hate it in the world of sports greatness is determined by what u win, PERIOD. and the greatest teams or players win coveted trophies the most times! Messi is GREAT but he is yet to be GREATER than Pele…

  • Roy Smith

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    @Steve-o, It sounds like you’re saying Messi is not a brilliant footballer. Despite the help from his Barca teammates, at the end of the day, he’s far beter than any of us will ever be. Also, it seems as though you believe that if defenders tackle Messi, they’re chances of getting the ball will be 100%. Let me tell you, if Jose Bosingwa and David Luiz were up against Messi, he would indeed get past them as if they weren’t there. Big, bulky defenders aren’t afraid of a 5’6 man running at them. They don’t win the ball because they can’t.

  • Brad

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    I have a feeling that the big guys have a hard time tackling Messi is because he’s fast off and on the dribble. It has to be psychological just as much as anything else. They go in, thinking “he’s just a pile of meat and bones like everyone else”, and are beaten. After that, they start screwing up. That’s what happened in Pele’s time. It’s happening now with Messi. The only difference is that Messi has yet to win the World Cup with that form of psychological warfare, while Pele won it twice, and then for good measure got a third medal.

  • akoria lawrence

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    If u say messi is better than pele, then u need to take some medication. The world cup is the best football tournament, so dnt dangrade the world cup,the statistic will prove everytin to you, so dat is no comperison.

  • Franco 11

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    @ russ ru.bruv so help me out here then based on shear talent alone who would u pick messi or pele and please consider hw effective they play int their respective positions coz truth is im in ths discussion not based on wat the world thngs coz we all knw soccer ratings have been screwed.ws js thnkng if soccer greatness is as good as a persons scoring ability and world cup trophies then defenders and midfielders might never cut the mark and so we are hear as soccer lovers to express our different opinions not solely on what weve heard bt also considering what needs to be improved to make a more fare assesmnet of players ratings coz truth is on any day iv been equally impressed by the play of people like xavi hernandez and iniesta but just because they dont score much or have one many worldcup caps doesnt negate them from being legends in their own ryt.im sayign when we look at players like messi,zidane maradona pele we not so much tryna attack them from a trophies perspective or goal rating but how well they have played with respect to their positios, they way theyv blended in with their teams ,skill/talent importance to their and maybe summing that all up the silver wear they hold sop yah anyone willing to catch my drift

  • cloud

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    .. i’ll say this again, coz this is the most obvious fact out there that people can’t seem to understand.

    – Messi is only good when he is in barcelona. period. the trophies he won in barca are astonishing. But that’s just it. He has ZERO TROPHIES FOR ARGENTINA. That proves to how dependent he is to his team mates in Barcelona.

    .. if we would ignore the statistics and only base on the performance of a player. On my previous post i made an example of players who helped their Club and Country and now here are some examples of Club Only:

    – zidane – while in juventus he was always the bridesmaid in the Champions League but he transfered to Real Madrid and made a vow to win it and so he did by scoring that super goal in the finals.

    – Ronaldo R9 – from Barca to Inter to Real Madrid, he has never slowed down. When he was healthy no one can stop him, it’s such a waste that he succumbed to injury

    – Zlatan – Inter, Barca, Milan. Same performance for each of these teams he played in.

    – Raul – of course his record in Real Madrid and when he transfered to Schalke he is still an influential player.

    – Ronaldo CR7 – devastating while in United and in his first year in Real was only stopped by an injury but on his 2nd year he broke the record in Spain.

    .. my point again, let Messi transfer to another team and let’s see how he would perform. Or we would only wait for Xavi to retire.

  • Franco 11

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    @ cloud hey hey hw many teams dd pele play if hes so esteemed

  • Franco 11

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    and dnt mention ney york cosmos his carreer was dyng then its nt about the team buddy if he’s fit in well then great and besdies its not like he cant move i js dont think anyone can afford him

  • cloud

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    @franco, my answer for you is Pele’s World Cup achievements. Santos forever and yet during the 31 day World Cup he delivered as expected. Unlike Messi, who’s only good at barca but failed big time with Argentina, not even made it to the finals on the LOWLY Copa America.

  • russ ru

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    @ franco IF YOU HAD ACTUALLY READ earlier comments from myself, cloud and brad: you would find that we actually think that either xavi or iniesta should have won the ballon d’or for 2010 because they got spain that world cup… Like i said earlier messi and ronaldo still have to win trophies with their nations to join the ranks of pele and maradona.

  • cloud

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    @russ …. i’ve noticed this with the messi fans, the way they argue is they tend to be subjective, like Mr. Franco. his entire very long paragraph above, he never mentioned anything from a statistical standpoint.

    .. How can a player be better than someone when he hasn’t even won anything for his country. It’s in how good you are with your country that truly measures a player’s worth.

    Let me state another fact for the Messi fans: Barcelona’s midfield is technically 60% of World Champions Spain, with Fabregas, Xavi, Busquets and Iniesta. let me say this again, for the third time now. No matter who Pep will put on at front/striker, they will surely score due to these aformentioned players ability to create goals. Look at Pedro, he is damn scoring. Messi is just overrated. he deserved his 1st ballon d’or and this 3rd, but his second, hell no.

  • Brad

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    Cloud, I think we should just ignore them. They’re so repetitive, and not a single fact comes up except Messi is probably the fastest dribbler in the world right now, and the trophies that he wins. . . with Barca. But with that midfield that Messi has behind me, I could score in every game, too. But put me on another team (or Messi, to prove a point to his fans here) the goals scored stats will not be so impressive.

  • Lachlan

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    Pele is an arrogant twat. The fact that he was a great player doesn’t change that.

  • cloud

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    @lachlan, there’s a phrase WHEN YOU HAVE IT, FLAUNT IT. I don’t think Pele is arrogant, he’s just stating his achievements and there’s nothing wrong with that. If you want to see arrogance, look at Tevez and Mario Balotelli. Tevez being a mercenary in terms of salary while Mario is a loudmouth with no personal accolade in his belt.

  • Brad

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    Lachlan, you should listen to cloud there. Pele stuck to the facts: 3 World Cups, 1,284 goals, all scored in 1,363 matches. Why wouldn’t you want to state your achievements? It helps prove your point, and makes you desirable in a certain field. In the US, high school athletes play a certain sport for two years and get what you call a letterman jacket. If they win a championship with their team, or get named as one of the best players in the region/state/nation, they get patches to show it. It makes them look good. Pele is pretty much doing the same thing.

    Meanwhile, you want arrogant twats? See Tevez, see Balotelli. Tevez always demands huge salaries, then moans about how he isn’t paid enough, even if he gets what he wants. Then Balotelli is just a butthole. I remember last season he scored a hat trick, then proclaimed himself to be second only to Messi. Sorry, Mario. Thousands upon thousands of other, more talented, and more humble players have scored more than just one hat trick in their lives.

    But only one player has a hat trick of World Cups. . . .

  • cloud

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    @brad, and let me add to how the people of argentina praise Maradona who only won one world cup. He is considered by many to be second only to pele. Diego only has one, how much more pele who has three. Sometimes people confuse the act of telling the truth and arrogance.

    .. pele is on top of the football world coz he truly deserves it. many have come and yet failed to push him off the top.

    .. Pele was asked this question many times: WHO DO U CONSIDER TO BE THE BEST PLAYER OF ALL TIME ??? He would be lying if he answers a different name, of course his constant answer is.. ME, PELE. Coz let’s face, who could be better than him ??

  • Franco 11

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    @cloud, brad and russ ru my conclusion is u guys are brazilian period and can undertsand ur disslike for ur rivals argentina

  • cloud

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    @franco, i suggest before you make a comment you read the entire thread first to avoid humiliating yourself. a couple of post back brad said he is american. and me a filipino, i can’t say for russ’ ethnicity. but bottomline is we’re not brazilians and yet we like pele for his achievements both on and off the pitch.

  • Franco 11

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    @cloud thats called sarcasm buddy i thnk u guys should have that in the phillipines. bt anyway us tick to sucking up to old pele whilst we enjoy seeing new blood rule.just dnt understand how guys ur age would support someone hu u never watched play in ur lifetime unless maybe i missed other posts and u my guy are abt 70 years which wld js getting me thnkng wat the f**k are u dng talkign to yng guys on ths netwrk.oh yah by the way im spanish

  • cloud

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    here comes the discrimination slander, as expected when i mentioned my ethnicity.

    .. what you’re trying to say is, we of today’s generation have no right to admire pele when we haven’t seen him in action ??? well, buddy, you forgot about this thing called internet in which we’re in right now talking and you forgot about how many videos about pele are posted on youtube and docus about him floating around on torrent.

    .. it’s like you’re saying to forget about Magellan and how great an explorer he is coz you weren’t alive to witness his achievements.

    .. or we should stop believing/admiring Aristotles’ teachings coz his’ of a very old era and his teachings won’t suit us on the modern era.

    .. i’ll say this again, think before you make comments. don’t go doing personal attacks just becoz Pele is better than Messi. Show us your “class”.

  • cloud

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    .. the match of Barca against Osasuna just proved my point that Messi is nothing without Xavi and Iniesta.

    .. to break it down in simplier terms:

    – Did you see Xavi and Iniesta on the line up ?? NO

    – did you see a goal from Messi ?? NO

    .. hence, Messi is nothing without Xavi and Iniesta.

  • Franco 11

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    @cloud dont wear ur hart on ur sleeve bruv meant no offence.alryt il up my game bt cant see a way i could convinve u’all if i dont take the hate out of ur eyes and sadly i feel iv gotta wait for the world cup and by those standards dont see myself surviving

  • Franco 11

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    nw uv js called me bak in so are u saying a player cant have a bad day he had one and it had nothing to do with a line up

  • russ ru

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    @ franco i’m english, but i don’t see what that has to do with anythin. Brad and cloud i see that some of the messi fans won’t see reason. Pele won trophies whereever he played. Maradona won trophies wherever he played, (napoli in italy is known because of him!) These two players won whether they played in club sides or national sides. And as far as arrogance goes between the two, maradona is miles ahead! Facts are facts until messi wins 3 wcs i still say pele is better. Then that arrogant maradona is second. With that i’m done. Will not comment anymore on this topic

  • Paul

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    I take an exception to the use of diminutive, your point can be made without the use of a such a world. He never requested his stature, it’s natural

  • Brad

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    Franco, I’ve never seen Pele play live. I’ve never seen Maradona play live. I’ve never even seen Eric Cantona play live. I am only 16, which naturally means I’ll use the internet more than most. So yes, natuarally, I’ll side with Pele. The facts state he’s better (I mean, C’MON, he’s got 3 World Cups, the MOST IMPORTANT trophy in all of football, to Maradona’s 1, and Messi’s NONE). I’ve seen the video tapes, and that’s all I’ve got to see. It’s my opinion that Pele’s better, and I’ve stated the facts to prove that me, cloud, and russ ru are right on it.

    Tell me, have you seen any Messi fans state any facts AT ALL?

  • Brad

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    Also, I’m guessing that back in South Africa, and every other time that Messi has played for Argentina (just about, at least), all that has happened is that he’s had a bad game, and that line-ups have got nothing to do with it. He’s played a good 65 to 70 matches for Argentina, and a respectable (but nothing more than that) 19 goals. Then you look at his stats at Barcalona: he’s in triple figures on both matches played AND goals. It can’t be no coincidence that Messi scores more goals (and therefore plays better) when Iniesta and Xavi are in the line-up at the same time as him.

  • shakir hasnain

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    Sir you are one of the greats but not the greatest.

    Zidane, Laudrup, Cryuff, Maradona
    Van Basten, Baggio, Zico, Ronaldinho
    George Best, Rivaldo, …..all are better than you Mr. Pele.

  • Franco 11

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    ok give me a lil bit guys will send u a couple of facts before pele stays on that pedestal u put him on

  • cloud

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    @brad, no matter how we paste the stats here between Messi and Pele, the messi fans still won’t admit that Pele is way above the argentinian. .. they always swerve the arguement on a more subjective vein, like i said, in sports what makes a player the greatest should be judge upon statistics.. and what you said about Messi is the true; In Barca his goal tally and assist tally is enormous but in Argentina, it’s like he’s not there at all.

    .. C’mon Messi fans, Could you at least defend your beloved Messi to why he’s below par when playing for his country ??

    .. A great player should perform consistently both for club and country.

  • Franco 11

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    ok i didi my homework and i thnk all of us had very little stats except the whole 1283 goals and 3 world cups bla bla.

    @ brad,russ ru and cloud. we’ll agree both messi and pele are forwards making their analysis even better.will give you the first stats

    in peles whole life he only had 47 individual accolaides including those he summed up after his prime and half of the ones he did achieve were based on his scoring ability and messi in the past 7 years has assumed 71n individual accolaides both ona club and internationally recognised level

    Fact 2 for those that think messis game is dependent on xavi and inietsa if u agree that is true then Peles evn worse in the three world cups Pele won ddi you know he played alongside players such as didi,nilton santos,djalmar.rivelino jaizinho,garrincha,carlos torres gilmar ( hu has been rated goalkeeper of the century and played in all three world cups).the players i mentioned werent just ordinary players respectively in order of rankings. Didi wsas 7th ranked player of the century., nilton santos 9,garrincha second after pele, carlos torres 16 and all the above mentioned players are in the hall of fame of football at that time there is no way with peles talent his game wouldnt be escalated 1000 fold with players of such a calibre and u guys just mention xavi and iniesta please3…

    Fact 3 it is well known that if players play in the same league let alone the same club at lengthy periods of tym their team bonding is greatly affected in the positive coz their style of play is the same and they get to watch each other and study each others performance all the players i mentioned above played either for santos,botafogo or corinthians in the same local league the tym pele played and so truth is brazil squad during that time was jst a blen of guys hu knew each others play telepathically much like u complain abt messi, xavi and iniesta and thats why after 1970 upto 1994 when brazil won the world cup agen most players had started playing for different leaggues coz soccer had become more commercialised and tts why eevn nw the same brazil struggles coz talent has stepped up and most these guys are in different leagues and if u arguing abt those stats chek african football even recently zambia won the africa cup of nations for the first time and 9 of tehir players play in their local league they beat ivory coats which has the kalous and drogba we all watch at chelsea,egypt same stats for winning afcon abt 4 years ago,italy 2006 and even france 1998. And to conclude argentine players are spilt all over different leagues kun aguero -england.levezzi-italy,dimaria -spain,tevez somewhere without a squad or is it an argetine club i dont know but dont hate on messi the argentine squad itself hasnt stepped up to his standard or what their heritage expects from them

    Fact 4: no offence on peles goals but remember these are goals summed up from bth club and national scores,messis getting there with 230 goals out of 366 appearances who knws what it will be like after the 1384th game so stay tuned

    Messi fans hop yuo liked this we dont support a lost cause and ‘pele puppets’ before u go on and flaunt arnd town first look at the crutches that held pele together he wasnt individually brilliant alone he ws born at the ryt time with the ryt nationality

  • Franco 11

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    open your eyes guys messi’s got it and hes gonna prove and even if he hasnt by winning world cup standards ild put any of those two guys beside each other and pick the more humble option which by peles statement or maradonas they got nothing on messi even cristiano and thats why everyones tryna disprove him and ges what messi aint sed nothing to nobody the quiet alwasy knw tyhe truth they dont need to brag abt it so wen all these guys sit at home and piss in their pants and flaunt accolaides to try cover the truth they knw deep down that at 25 messi’s already been crowned

  • Brad

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    You still haven’t done enough homework, Franco. Go back and read comments by me, Cloud, and Russ Ru: We have said REPEATEDLY that Messi isn’t better than Pele right now. . . read those two words again. . . RIGHT NOW. . . . that’s what we’re getting at. Just because you win a million personal accolades doesn’t automatically mean you’re the best, and the reason why is that personal accolades are nothing compared to championship trophies. And we’ve also ALREADY said that Pele being born a Brazilian during a time when Brazil could call on the likes of Rivelino, Jairzinho, etc., etc. . . . is an X FACTOR. We can’t control that part, and neither can you and the Messi puppets.

    If Messi was already crowned, he’s have won the 2006 and 2010 World Cups already with Argentina, and be well on his way to drawing level with Pele 2 years from now. I’ll give you this: he’s got 3 World Cups left in him. He can win all 3, but it’s gonna take more than just him to win it. Pele had the X factor of being on a team full of team players, not individual talents that Argentina typically produces. Pele also had the X factor of being one of those team players automatically. We’re trying to tell you, Pele’s the best ever, RIGHT NOW. We’re trying to tell you, that Messi STILL HAS A CHANCE, and a decent one at that, of becoming better. If there is anyone who needs to open their eyes, it is you Franco, and the other bandwagoners (well, most of them, anyways) who still don’t make for any intelligent reading or argument.

    And yes, I know who Pele’s teammates were. I hope you know who Messi’s teammates are, because that right there just made that 2nd fact immediately REDUNDANT.

    Pele played better for club AND (note the “and” right there) country. And considering the fact that playing for country has always been tougher (taking into account that whoever you play almost always puts their best players together).

    I’m not peeing in my pants. I’m not flaunting accolades. I’m stating facts that support my argument that Pele is better. And facts never lie. Fact: Messi is the best player in the world today. Fact: Messi has a chance to become better than Pele. FACT: Pele, however, is still the best ever, Messi hasn’t even reached him yet.

    Try being more intelligent, Messi fans. And try sounding intelligent too. I’ve noticed the half of you still downgrade Pele (which automatically means we’ll downgrade Messi, only by using facts, so your comebacks are still redundant). And not only that, you don’t even type intelligently. I had 2 reeeeed abt haf an owah 2 understand wut u r sayen Franco.

    U guys still ain’t sed nothing 2 convince us dat Messi is betta dan Pele. . . .
    haha.

  • Franco 11

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    seeing u english brad thank u for downgrading mine thats so mature…oh sorry u 16 i cant expect anymore from you.its called a type error.usually got so much great stuff to say abt messi that i get overwhelmed.trust me u dont want me to use spanish to cement my facts.in 1962 pele only played one match and hardly finished it so he wsnt influential in that world cup making him a glory rider such a prick and his 1970 world cup wasnt all that to ride home abt either i cn give him credit for 1958(u see i gave him a lil bit) so plz ths whole cup thng is over rated.

    Hope the english is better now brat sorry brad

  • JAMES

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    well it has taken me over two days to finish reading this thread and i seriously think you all are crazy
    pele and messi will never give you a dime for standing up for them the way you are right now!!!so go and do something better with your lives and i believe there is a 16 year old go do your homework silly boy and the rest don’t you have anything better to do with your lives…just end this you all entitled to your own opinion and truth be told you will never be able to convince each other who the best is ….GET A LIFE!!!!

  • Franco 11

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    @ james thanx for ur unrequired interjection but the reason we have this website is for heated debates like this go watch oprah or something wer the talks dont require ur minimal intelelct.u were saying brad….

  • russ ru

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    ok, i know i said i wouldn’t comment anymore… @ franco what u said To james just made my day! Lol 🙂 *tears from laughter* with that i’ll let cloud, franco and brad resume…

  • cloud

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    .. thanks for that research Franco, now we can discuss this in a more objective manner.

    .. but before that, a big thanks for the comedic interruption from James.

    .. anyway, franc, let me refute your facts:

    fact 1: during pele’s time, people aren’t crazy about individual awards. unlike today when every magazine and organization gives out their own award.

    fact 2: you’ve mentioned the brazilian legends on the Brazil squad. While Xavi and Iniesta are of Barca a Club. But if i follow your train of thought, both Messi and Pele would be nothing without their team mates, right ?? But how come pele has delivered both for Club and country ?? Should we put the blame on Messi’s argentinian team mates for his flop ??

    fact 3: the brazil of 2002 have players from all over europe and so does france of 2006. italy 2006 and spain 2010 basically have players coming from their own league. but it doesn’t mean that when a squad is from the same league gives them automatic chemistry. there will always be a player that leads them. Brazil had Ronaldo on 2002. Zizo for france in 2006 and Cannavaro for Italy. And Xavi and Casillas for Spain 2010. Messi is tagged as the best player in the planet, then why haven’t we seen him leading his country to glory ?? .. ok forget about the World Cup, how about the Copa America when the teams participating are sub-standard. Why is Messi still invisible in that tournament ??

    fact 4: that remains to be seen if messi will shatter Pele’s record. well, messi wasn’t able to compete with CR7 when Ronaldo is healthy on the goals tally.

    .. and franc, you mentioned messi’s achievement at 25. well, pele was only 17 at 1958, scored a hat-trick on the semis and two at the finals.

  • Brad

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    Excuse me, can’t stop laughing. . . . . . haha. . . . oh goodness. . . . . Franco, I know I took the mickey, but calling me “brat” is no better than what I did. If you’re going to reprove me, don’t do it like that. At least try and sound like an adult. But you sounded just like an 11 year old

    But what cloud says right above at the end of his comment nails it on the button. Pele was always better from a younger age. Exactly how many times have we seen someone score a hat trick beyond the quarterfinals? I can only think of 2. And it just so happens that Pele was the first of them. And he’s also part of that truly elite group of players who have scored 3 times in the final match. Messi still hasn’t reached the semis, and has only 1 goal to the good in WC tournaments.

    Oh yeah, not just the World Cup. . . the Copa America. . . . like Cloud said, Messi’s virtually invisible in that competition, and it’s not like he’s playing some of the best teams in the world, apart from Brazil. I don’t know how many Copa Americas Pele won, but he’s got at least one or two.

    Now, James, that was actually worse than Franco calling me a brat. . . . tisk, tisk. . . . 8 year old, at best I’d say. If you’re going to comment again from now on, make sure it’s intelligent, and not to mention, on subject. Hold on. . . (laughs to death and back).

    Back to Franco, I think me, cloud, and russ ru have said stuff about x factors no one on Earth can control. I think we’ve included injuries in that, am I wrong Cloud? Here, let’s go into the “what if?” realm and look at what would’ve happened: Pele would’ve played in every game had he not got a knock or whatever it was, and scored+assisted several goals. And while we’re on this part, with Brazil: no doubt that Pele’s teammates had a lot to do with him being the most valuable jewel on an already glittering crown (the x factor we’ve already discussed). But then we’ve got Messi’s teammates at Barca, his own personal performances and stats, plus the trophies he’s won at Camp Nou. And then the nail in the coffin: what about his time with Argentina? Not as impressive, and not an ounce of championship achievement. Not a fan of Maradona, but he did a better job leading his team to glory, with an inferior squad to boot, I’d daresay!!!

    How about this ranking (all-time, at least for the moment, I’ll say AGAIN, that Messi still can break Pele’s records) 1.) Pele 2.) Maradona 3.) Messi.

    It is your opinion that Messi is the best. Fine. While I would absolutely love to change your opinion for you, now I’ll settle for you at least seeing the reason behind me, Cloud, and russ rus’ arguing. You haven’t given Pele any credit apart from the 1958 championship. You even downgraded his 1970 win, which means you’ve downgraded the best ever WC tournament, and even the game itself. Let’s end this now, gracefully. And I’ll let you end this, with your reply.

  • don

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    @Brad Cloud and Russ Ru, guyz y dnt u gt ur asses out on D pitch & prove rathr thn mamoth paragraphing views u r nt even d crap of Pele, maradona or Messi to upgrade or degrade them on their levels and i only in short agree these stars will b never born again so lez just all salute them Pele best of his time, Maradona best of his and Messi the best for this era and best everrrrr…! i would now end it up and by the way u guyz come to papa someday>>>kiddos.

  • Brad

    0 0

    (rim shot). Again, Cloud and Russ, we have an adversary that doesn’t even give facts to support his saying Messi is best ever. Sorry don, but you haven’t ended this.

    Now Franco, what say you?

  • cloud

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    .. don is like someone who paints MESSI IS THE BEST on a wall and runs to avoid capture. I hate to generalize but only Franco here can actually defend Messi in a civilized manner, the rest post only nonsense.

    .. i’m only a nobody, buy my opinion is; as long as messi doesn’t win anything for his country then his name can’t be uttered in the same level as Pele and Maradona.

    .. i have a feeling that most of the Messi fans will be converted to Christiano Ronaldo fans next year, since CR7 is playing better than Messi and Real Madrid right now has ended Barca’s reign in La Liga.

  • Brad

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    You just nailed it right on the button Cloud. Messi still has a lot of work to do. Not just stats, but the international honors. So far all he’s got is a runner’s up medal at the 07 Copa America. Not very impressive when you compare his international honors at age 24, with the honors Pele got by age 22.

  • dede

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    hey pele should stop bragging. after seeing video highlights believe me both messi and christiano ronaldo are better than pele. Pele’s generation was not as technical as today. if the football messi plays now was transfered to the 70’s & 80’s my God people would be saying MESSI best ever ever ever.

  • cloud

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    .. @dede, kindly look up the meaning of the word EVOLUTION. that’s my only answer to your statement.

  • Brad

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    @dede, you sound just like every single one of the other numbskulls we’ve had to deal with, and not only dealt with, but EMBARASSED. I don’t even know why Cloud and I are even bothering to answer you.

  • Franco 11

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    hey gentleman took time out coz wasnt well but im bak and enjoying the chats it seems brad and colleagues have been taking the net by storm im impressed bt guess wat i dd on my sick leave met up wth my uncle who satsy in madrid and hes 82 years old and this is what he had to say about pele bear in mind am not fabricating facts this is a man who saw bth maradona and peles time plus currently viewing messi

  • Franco 11

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    thanx dede and don its gud to know there are people who see the light.before i get to pele could we please nt put tt drug addict into this league of extra -ordinary gentleman i have enuf junk on him to sedn him slightly below zlatan ibrahimovic.

  • Franco 11

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    my uncle says pele was a player who was in a league on his own, fast and a brilliant goal scorer making that his most loved trait,maradona ws skillful and witty and apart from his later drug scandals no one can deny that he is a great and after peles time he was the only thng worth watching,then the baggio era followed by zidane wer impressive but not anythng to ryt home abt.but then he paused and sed maybe its old age and im still to get my memory serve me well but iv been watching messi for 4 years constantly and for a player his height he is displayed a calibre of football very close to pele except for his goal aggregate being less than peles i cn definately tel u he is quicker,sharper and more skillful than pele was and here ws the best part he sed shame that he plays for the rng country had he been brazilian his name would be cemented for all eternity hahaha i was in stitches i realised all we have is stats but views from people who wer actually ther and watched these guys in and out of season should tell a better picture so im sayign that this is how we can end this gentleman and we need to strike a deal lets send i dnt knw hw a world wide post for people to vote both young and old on who is a cut above the rest and if pele wins il take it in and accept but if messi wins brad u on the next flight to spain to watch a barcelona game on me and i do apologize for calling u brat tt ws more ur nature than mine lol

  • Franco 11

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    oh yah with that in mind why arent u guys sayng smthng abt the barca game with valencia 5-1 guess what havoc messi caused woo hooo with 4 consecutive golas in shear brilliance i shld say

  • dede

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    i luv madrid but i still see messi az tha best. believe me its un ussuall to find people accepting that a rival is great. what can settle Brad’s mind is having a glance at videos of back then n compare with todays. pele was a striker scored many goals BUT messi iz more talented n skilled than pele,he plays an attacking midfield/support striker role yet still he scores like no one’s bussiness. HIZ A LION.

  • dede

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    i luv madrid but i still see messi az tha best. believe me its un ussuall to find people accepting that a rival is great. u can tell 4rm the sound of Pele’s words(if messi wins 2 world cups) dats total crap. when spain took FIFA 2010 world cup why dint a spaniard become the 2010 world best player? its not about how many world cups you have won, Pele please save us the shaky tongue. pele was a striker scored many goals BUT messi iz more talented n skilled than pele,he plays an attacking midfield/support striker role yet still he scores like no one’s bussiness in this era of solid defenders. HIZ A LION.

  • kofi

    0 0

    yal should have a life it looks like football defines the life of some people and pele please shuy your old ass up your time has gone.

  • cloud

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    @franco, congrats on your uncle for reaching such a ripe age. he’s lucky enough to have seen the greats in action. especially with pele, puskas, alfredo, cruyff.

    .. today’s generation, US, are very lucky to have those great players to inspire us and we try to emulate them and here comes in the word evolution. Each sport has evolved into something better, in football we’re seeing very young players with such talent; Messi, Ronaldo, Neymar, RVP and more.

    .. Players today have the advantage of science to monitor their health and advancement of training techniques to avoid injury and tons of videos of the “GREATS” for them to review and learn from. I’m not discrediting our generation, all i’m saying is, this TREND is but normal that the latest generation will have much more advantage than the previous.

    @franco, believe me, how i wish Messi could replicate his form with argentina and with that, let’s wait till he wins something for his country.

    .. Euro 2012 is the nearest of them national competitions, since cr7 is one of those players that performs well at club level but struggles in his country, he will be greatly monitored.

    @dede, the 2010 Ballon D’Or was one of those bad decisions in football. A world cup year and we had Xavi, Iniesta and Messi as finalist, but, WHERE IS WESLEY SNEIJDER ?? Wesley won a treble with Inter Milan and reached the Finals for his country. He should be at least there as the finalist. But they chose Messi instead, which is frankly, a very stupid decision for them. Xavi deserves it more that year.

  • Franco 11

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    so what if barca win euro 2012 or at least if u see messi shine he then has an edge ove pele is that it cloud

  • freedom

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    messi is simply the best of our time. he’s unstoppable whether you like it or not. Pele’s attitude towards messi is beef and fear accompanied with jealousy. his times are over, while not go to sleep and allow us to decide. Each time messi is rated world’s best, you’ll refer him to pele. each time messi is rated the best, Pele will get up from his seat. everything Na turn by turn. now Na messi turn, Una no see am son? wen him time don finish, anoda person go take over. Well, i get advise for Una, wen u no accept defeat, you self no go ever Win. Because it takes failure to succeed. A word is enough for the wise.

  • cloud

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    @franco, the EURO 2012 i’m referring to is the one that will be played this June – July and will be hosted by Ukraine and Poland. Barca won’t be there coz it will be a battle between the Nations of Europe. it’s not a Club competition.

    .. Messi’s chance for country honors is still too far ahead. On the World Cup 2014 and Copa America 2015, both will be held on Brazil.

    .. the only time that Messi can overtake Pele is when he wins a World Cup and the Copa America in flying colors. till that day happens, Pele is still on top of everyone else. That’s what i’m trying to say Franco.

  • Brad

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    Ummmm. . . Barca win Euro 2012? You’re on the right continent, Franco, but this is something for the national teams to challenge for, not club teams like Barca! (laughs)

    And Cloud, I’ve been saying that just about the entire time, myself.

    I think this is where we can end it boys. Now lets sit back, revel in Pele’s career, and watch to see whether or not Messi will beat him.

  • franco 11

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    it was a type error cloud and brad shish i knew brad uld capitalize gosh!!!!!

  • franco 11

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    even i laughed wen i realised i had sed barca actually wanted to say argentina my bad.ok let me look at the stats and wat argentina are gonna put on the table interms of a squad and il let u knw if its a winning team or not

  • franco 11

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    oh yah guys nthng personal but did any1 get wat freedom was saying

  • franco 11

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    @freedom hey buddy are u jamaican.go messi for sure man

  • Brad

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    No, I didn’t really get what freedom was saying. . . and besides, I was just teasing you.

  • Roy Smith

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    Pele’s never won the Champions League, nor has he been in a league like La Liga today. Messi’s never won a World Cup, hasn’t scored over 1000 goals, and is a flop for Argentina. However, fans of the younger generation view Messi as the best player ever, because they’ve never seen the ability of Pele, the mastermind of Cruyff’s, and the passion and leadership of Beckenbauer. With every generation, players change, and ultimately, opinions change. Thirty years from now, there’ll be a new “best player” and our children will argue that they’ll never be as good as Messi. If we try to change opinions of the young, modern football will suffer due to a lack of passion. Let people have opinions. That’s what makes us fans. I’m sure all my ancestors have different opinions on who the best players are, but ultimately it’s our love of our generation that keeps the passion within our hearts. The only time we are entitled to correct others on their football opinion is when our wives tell us that David Beckham is the player ever solely due to his looks. Other than that, just let fans put their two cents in a debate, and refrain from correcting them. Opinions are worth a thousand facts, because they have passion behind them. To those of you saying Messi is better than Pele, you guys are absoloutely right. And those that believe Pele is superior you’re right too. And with this, I think we can bring this whole conversation to a close.

  • Brad

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    Agreed. about time, a whole month and 120 something comments later. . .

  • franco 11

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    hahahaha u seem exhausted brad fair enough discussion over join me in the other discussions on offer gentleman like the suarez evra incident and who might take the FA cup this season

  • cloud

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    .. my parting words for this discussion is .. Only Time Will Tell ..

    .. i’ve browsed thru this website’s forum board, it’s very empty. How I wish people would be more active there ..

  • Kevin the Brit

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    Messi… Is without a doubt an equal to Pele. He will never win a World Cup because Argentina Sucks! With Barcelona Messi is GOD. With Argentina he is nothing more than the 11th man on the field. I love to watch the little man.

  • franco 11

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    @kevin the brit well sed my good man well sed

  • cloud

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    .. From Mr. Cruyff himself:

    “It is very hard to tell who is the best. (In my eyes) the most spectacular is Messi, but the best is Xavi. “

  • Brad

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    and look at who out of those two has a World Cup, and who hasn’t. And while you’re at it, look at who has 3 World Cups. Amazing how someone can be an equal to the only player to have done that, when they haven’t even got to the tournament’s semifinals.

  • cloud

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    .. it would be amazing if someone would dispute what Mr. johan said. The man who has done it all both as a player and a manager. Being spectacular and being the best are two different things. He chose Xavi as the best due to him being the heart of Barca and of Spain. And yes, Messi is only spectacular coz he just scores.

  • Fred

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    I’ll try to be brief and I acknowledge that many of you know more about the game. Here is my ranking: 1. Pele 2. Maradona 3. Zidane 4. Messi

    My only issue with Messi at this point is that I believe strongly that his success is very dependent upon his Barcelona team. He is one of the best already no doubt but how would he fare in the EPL or on Real Madrid? I have to wonder though we will probably never know. If I could have one player from the Barcelona squad, it would be Xavi or Messi. Pele played in an era wheen the game was played at a slower pace. The two most amazing players i’ve seen…Maradona and Zidane.

  • franco 11

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    please mr fred dnt thnk messi doesnt wanna change js buy him if u can afford him

  • cloud

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    .. my guess is messi won’t stay in barcelona for much too long, it all depends on Pep. If Pep stays, then messi will too, but if Pep will leave, i’m sure Messi will follow him and that would be a very big headache for barca’s officials.

  • cloud

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    .. i forgot, Mr. Franco, Messi is AFFORDABLE. If only Barca will allow it. Even if they put a 150 million for-sale price tag on his head, Manchester City will snatch him in an instant.

  • franco 11

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    gentleman gentleman hold ur horses pele has got to be freaking out watchng messi score 5 goals ydy at ths rate 100 goals is pretty much doeable dnt u thnk brad, russ ru and cloud.pure brilliance il say

  • franco 11

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    sorry meant 1000 goals

  • franco 11

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    i see no1 has anythng to say coz another record ws broken silence is truly golden and a golden boot for messi tooo lolll!

  • TheG.O.A.T

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    Messi is the best. As far as world cups go if Messi had players behind him that pele did in the world cup he would win several. I dont think the world cup is a measuring stick for best player of all time.. Your essentially saying that a kid born in some small country somewhere has no chance of ever becoming the G.O.A.T simply because he doesnt have the players around him to Win the World Cup.. my 2cents

  • legend5xx

    0 0

    u took the words ryt out of my mouth G.O.A.T.cldnt have sed it better

  • Benard Chibiku

    0 0

    he is better than everyone and he thinks he is the greatest of all.Messi is the best and Pele is miles away ,cant be compared to Maradona.He is big headed .

  • Gremond ishaku

    0 0

    Messi is too good 2 compared wit living legands.maradona insist is beta like pele also,take note that messi ave broken d best club in d world.if well observed same people play in world cup.

  • Brad

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    Amazing, just amazing. Cloud, if you read this, I’m afraid that there are still idiots who spray-paint “Messi is the best” but run away and don’t both to give facts except the worthless part about Messi’s humility. Just because someone is humble AND talented doesn’t mean they’re better than the rest.

  • Arthur Plottier

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    Mr Pele, you was a great player but Garrincha was much better than you.
    You are not the best player ever, Alfredo Di Stefano was IMO the best followed by Messi and Garrincha in not an order.
    Maradona was great but not humble to to deserve be the best.

  • Brad

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    cool story, Arthur, where’s the facts to prove it?

    Teammates are a big part of a certain player being considered the best. Di Stefano, Pele, George Best, Maradona, Garrincha, Puskas, Messi. . . the list goes on. . . all of them needed teammates to help them do their level best, and to push it to where they can do better. If Pele had never been born, Garrincha would be the best ever. Why? Garrincha is a big reason why Pele has 3 WC championships instead of just 2.

    For the record, Pele had a better on-field record that was also matched by his off-field record. Unfortunately for people like Garrincha, Maradona, and Best, the on-field is not as spectacular as Pele’s was, and the off-field part is in even worse condition, I’d say.

  • Htm

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    wy are ol of u guyz nt including people lyk E’too, Drogba and Mwaruwari who has also done great for Africa. They are truly the pioneers of African football.

  • Peter Mantu

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    Let’s not forget that this discussion is about Pele and Messi. I also thought that the discussion was brought to a closure by Roy Smith February 23, 2012 at 10:11 pm.

    I fully agree with you on this one!!! Drogba, E’too…whatever

  • Brad

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    Peter, some idiots decided to throw the gauntlet down again, and notice all of them are Messi fans, but only one actually gives a good fight. . . if any fight at all.

  • Pitt

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    Kondouy mee a Pele…

  • futbol guru

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    PELE ERA WAS PETTY, THE PRESSURE A STAR FACES NOW IS WAY WORST THAN WHAT PELE WOULD HAVE EVA GONE TRU IN HIS LIFETIME…. PELE JUST JEALOUS A BRAZILIAN NOT THERE TAKING THE SPOTLIGHT…. MESSI RULZ PELE GET WITH IT….

  • leke

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    pele was a combination of lionel messi and cristiano ronaldo.Messi is only Messi.Pele the best ever

  • Brad

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    Futbol guru, where’s some facts that Messi is better? And don’t give me pressure nonsense, you don’t need pressure to prove yourself.

  • samuel

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    jealouse Pele, go to hell!!!! MESSI is the best ever.HATE HIM OR LOVE HIM, The fact remains.

  • Idani Churchill

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    My friend Samuel,let us not b sentimental.Pele have said,messi equal my record.That’s all what he had said.What is then d fuss all about.Whether you like or not,Pele is still d greatest.

  • Brad

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    Cool story, samuel, needs more dragons and stuff, along with REAL fact, and not your insufferable opinionated ideas, to support your claim.

  • Joe

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    Not on any side in particular but guys common …don’t you think the once great Pele is just too old to be talking tall??? Whence all but now he can do is just sit and watch Messi rise higher and higher. Maybe, maybe… he’s feeling intimidated by such a stellar talent… that be my theory..!

  • Brad

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    I’m guessing he was also intimidated by the rise of players like Cruyff, Maradona, Romario, Ronaldo (both of them), and Zidane? The only thing to back your claim is that Messi is doing greater than any of those specific competitors, but he’s not even level with Pele yet, or for that matter, beyond Pele.

  • emeke

    0 0

    I pray for chelsea officials to visit synagogue church all nations in nigeria,to meet the senior Prophet T.B Joshua for more prayers concerning this champions league final.This is our year to lift this trophy all chelsea fan.

  • cool dude

    0 0

    Pele is farrrrr too arrogant to be the G.O.A.T.

  • idris

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    the thing is pele played at a time when pele was playing football wasnt as hard as it is now, in todays game the footballers have to go gym thye have to have a certian level of fitness. however back in the day the guys were not as good as thye are now physcially and technically. pele also played in league whihc wasnt very challenging, however he did play in the world cups and he had a good team, where as messi plays in one of the hardest leagues in the world and as foe the international thing well messi is not a winger he a free roaming guy, he will go where he likes. and the manager is letting him do that and hes playing great for his country. 🙂 so pele stop being so arrogant ur times is gone messi is one of a kind. hes better than pele

  • Brad

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    where’s some facts, Idris, if you please? Even back then, they had to have a lot of fitness.

  • Kghan

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    You know, I am really tired of Pele blindness, although I enjoy seeing an old timer trying to bring his past life in the spot light and envious of the those who are NOW in the spot light – forgetting that his game was as running on a highway, no defenders to surround him never mind glued to him and break him down even before he get the ball, Pele dribbled through defenders with at least 1 meter space between them while Messi dribbling through them while they are glued to him leaving them crumbling on the field one after another that you think they bags of cement stacked over each other and still scoring wonder goals – Pele you were great in playing your TIME game OPEN tactics and you get the attention and recognition you deserved then – today you are MOUTH playing the game which is out of your old mind imagination – what recognition are you seeking NOW ? Perhaps, you are excused if you wished that you are playing in such footballing times – if you were playing today, I wonder if you will ever get the chance to run at any player, most likely you will be less than ordinary player who is still in the TRYING phase of his career. Enjoy watching and admiring Messi, Neymar, Ronaldo “although I do not like him but I still enjoy his power play” … Benzima, Xavi, Iniesta, Ruberry, etc etc … So, Pele STOP talking JUNK – remain the respected Pele we know and just enjoy and admire what you see.

  • pedzzi

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    i truly respect pele and i feel messi has accomplished some though he still got time in his hands to prove critics.
    but still 1 thing that excites me is that PELE admitted himself if u read between the lines….. am out

  • Brad

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    Yes, pedzzi, Pele knows that Messi has a chance to beat him as being the world’s best ever. But thing is, he HASN’T yet. I’m getting tired of the blindness that people like Kghan (who I already know isn’t very likely to answer me) who talk JUNK but don’t give no facts to support their claims that, even though he’s yet to win a WC, let alone his second WC goal, Messi is the best, when PELE STILL IS.

    I can tell you, we throw Messi back in the playing days of Pele, what few defenders there were back then would tear the little guy up without having to worry about getting punished by the ref.

  • teenage

    0 0

    we also need to look and the modern game and the style of play by other teams. plz pele people will tell u that you are the best just wait and watch messi enjoy what he does the most

  • aisha

    0 0

    dnt no y pele kips talking about messi d way he does…or is he jealous?aw cn an old man like him kip saying such nonsense…i tot wisdom comes with old age or does it?

  • RHISTO

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    PELE I AM GONE TELL YOU SOMETHING SHUT YOUR MOUTH YOU HAVE NEVER KNOW HO HAS GONE BROKE YOUR RECORD YOU HAVE NEVER KNOW ONLY GOD KNOWS THAT YOU ARE NOT GOD PELE.JEALOUSE THAT ARE YOU.PELE YOU DON’T LOVE MESSI I KNOW THAT.YOU LIKE WHEN MESSI SCORE GOALS YOU DON’T LIKE THAT. PELE YOUR TIME IS OVER NOW IS MESSI TIME TO SHINE BIGUP YOU MESSI WE ALL LOVE YOU IS YOUR TIME MESSI IS YOUR TIME

  • Haokip

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    Everyone knows that pele is a legend(because he scored more than 1000 goals ….only in the brazillian league where the quality of football is much lower than europe) but he should try to act as a legend and stop projecting himself every time that ‘he is the best footballer to ever lived’…..or maybe he realised that messi is better than him and he feel threatened

  • Felix The Cat

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    Messi isn’t the best because he has yet to achieve what Pele has. Sure Messi is a great player who scores a lot of goals but he plays in one of the least competitive leagues in Europe, where two teams always dominate the top and are ahead of the other teams by 20+ points. Sure players now train with better equipment but they also play on better fields. Can Messi score over 1000 goals without a perfect field? I think not. But Pele could and did. So before you get overly emotional and piss yourselfs, all you Messi fans, you should consider the less than desirable conditions that Pele had to play in and the criticism he most likely received at that time for being black. That’s real pressure, not getting paid millions of dollars and than having some dips**t blog about how bad you are and bit***ng about it.

  • Analyze This

    0 0

    First of all Messi and Pele are one of a kind great players, however Pele has the record and Messi is nowhere close yet. Why would a person who has the record and enjoying his leisurely life as a delegate of soccer be jealous of someone who has nothing to do with him? Next all of you who say soccer wasn’t as competitive then, are you insane? All I have t say about that is, no fancy shoes with pads and grips, no crazy physical therapy and ice baths, no super aerodynamic balls, no perfect fields. If you put Messi with that kinda of equipment his skill would diminish noticeably. Next all the defenders as someone above has mentioned, would break his legs, where no one frowned upon two legged tackles, tackles from behind or taking the player and the ball out at the same time. Please Messi followers, consider that before you insult a man who has evolved soccer into what it is now.

  • Haokip

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    La liga is the most competetive league in the world and the proof is…an all spanish europa league final and it could have also been an all spanish cl final if an el clasico was not in between the two legs of the semi-final. And did you see how bilbao outplayed man utd

  • Haokip

    0 0

    La liga is the most competetive league in the world and the proof is…an all spanish europa league final and it could have also been an all spanish cl final if an el clasico was not in between the two legs of the semi-final. And did you see how bilbao outplayed man utd. It is considered a two team league because barca and madrid are the two best clubs in the world by a long margin. If this two teams are put in any other so called competetive league the result would be the same as in the la liga

  • ELLIE BOY

    0 0

    You guys goin on abt pele, what about maradona the best player ever who lived to play the game,a guy who not even pele can talk wth,he who got take on 5 guys and still score….ya ya ya he had a drug problm so what he still playd the best soccer……..messi,messi who ?? Ronaldo is the bst plyer off today

  • ELLIE BOY

    0 0

    If you take messi away from barca hell never play like is doin now at barca because he is surrounded by great players. But luk at christiano from the english now in spain what a player, who scored the most hatricks last season in spain ronaldo who even the record this season messi plz people facts. Facts you cn take christiano to anytime an still play like he always do..

  • Brad

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    Thank you, Analyze This, and you, Felix, for real statements not just just the usual crap that people like Haokip put. As if anyone cares about Europa. . . and how can it be competitive when the all spanish final was NOT in La Liga?

    If it weren’t for Pele, Messi would not have such talent. Then again, neither would Zidane, Maradona, Cruyff, Rooney. . . need I go on?

  • Mardon

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    Brad, could you expand on your last comment “If it weren’t for Pele, Messi would not have such talent.”
    Were I to read your statement that Messi got supranaturally “inspired” by Pele and his games, I vividly remember reading on this very website about Messi not having watched Pele play.

  • Haokip

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    Brad…as far as i’m concerned you are just anti-messi. By the way the best player to have played football at the moment is ronaldo(brazillian)

  • Brad

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    Mardon, you get the idea. . . that is, if you bothered to read the rest of the comment. I’m sure Messi has seen Zidane, and Maradona, and Rooney. . . and I’m sure all of these before mentioned players have been inspired in some form or fashion by Pele, regardless of whether or not they’ve seen him play, live or on Youtube. I personally got inspired just hearing the 3 WC, which no one else has done, as well as the 1,280+ goals in, I believe 1,363 matches. Sorry for any misunderstandments there, Mardon.

    And I’m also sure that Ronaldo has also been inspired in some form or fashion by Pele, too. . .

    Ellie boy, is that what it has come to? To just brush aside the fact that someone did performance enhancing drugs? As an American, hearing about drugs is very common place in our sports of American football, baseball, basketball, and hockey. It SICKENS me. That’s why I hate ALL drug abusing athletes. No doubt, Maradona was very talented, but the drugs brings him down in my rankings.

    Haokip, exactly how many times do I have to stress this, too? I’m NOT, I repeat, NOT, anti-Messi. This is my personal belief, that I’d like everyone else to see the sense behind, and respect, if not take on, about the next Maradona: he’s the best player in the world, right now, but he has yet to attain the title of the best player EVER. That crown still belongs to Pele.

    But how would I love to see Messi overtake Pele. . . that way I can tell my grandparents that I was alive to see the best ever player. . . I’d just love it!

  • Brad

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    Also, Mardon, another thought just occurred to me. . .

    we need truly talented players to help advance the game, right? We need someone to rise up and raise the bar for the rest of us, am I wrong? Well, there was Di Stefano, and Puskas, and Stanley Matthews, and Tom Finney. Then there was Pele and Garrincha, and Didi. George Best. Johan Cruyff, Michel Platini, Diego Maradona. Romario, Ronaldo. Zidane. Beckham.

    Players like these, in some way, rose up and gained world recognition for their talents, and were considered in their prime to be either the best or at least one of the best. They’ve served as inspiration to younger players, from 4 year olds to their more youthful peers in the professional game. They’re all heroes. They’ve all inspired us in some way. Do we really, absolutely, must have to actually see the player in question in order to be inspired by them? I think not, but that’s my opinion on that matter; what’s yours?

    oh HA! I just saw a mistake in my previous comment: I meant to say “grandchildren”, not “grandparents!” LOL!!!!

  • Analyze This

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    Seriously guys and gals, you can have and voice your opinions about the players, but why must you make personal attacks and insult the players (in particular immature Messi fans). Those of you who have said Pele is garbage and jealous, what have you achieved that gives you the privilege to say that?

    Also thanks Brad, drugs in sports is a disgrace, I don’t like Maradona for that reason.

    And Ellie Boy I would totally agree with you that the best player right now is C. Ronaldo. Messi cannot perform without Barca just look at his international form.

  • Oybek

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    Mr Analyze This,
    “Seriously guys and gals, you can have and voice your opinions about the players, but why must you make personal attacks and insult the players (in particular immature Messi fans)”

    Should I read your statement above that it is ok to insult football fans? If you claim to be objective, at least try to do that! Your insulting Messi fans and favoring CR7 vividly suggest that you are antibarca. So you trying to defend the veteran Pele is your implicit way of attacking Barca and Messi. You probably never care about Pele.

    Messi’s relatively unsuccessful international form cannot be basis for you claiming he is inferior to CR7. What has CR7 achieved as a part of Portugal that makes him egual in all fronts? Football is a team sport and everyone’s success largely depends on the team they are in. Or do you dare to claim that CR7 would have scored his goals without the likes of Ozil, Marcelo and Benzema? So many football fans must have a good reason to compare Messi with the likes of Pele and Maradona, true legends in the history of the game. What about your little CR7? He is way too out of the league of the greatest ever and should be fortunate to be compared to Messi from time to time thanks to the courtesy of Special No One’s constant endavors to talk him up virtually everytime he talks to media and commercial and opportunistic media’s compelled tend towards him.

  • Brad

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    It is Pele’s international career we should be comparing Messi’s to. Not Ronaldo, has he has had the same amount of silverware for country as Messi has: none.

  • pacman

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    pele is so damn great when he play for prison team along with sly..can messi do that..?NO..messi just suck..!

  • Brad

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    That right there was way too far, pacman. Messi’s the best in the world right now. But he’s not the best all time. Pele is. But that doesn’t mean that Messi sucks.

  • Irnes

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    If messi played in the Brazilian League, he would score 80-90 goals per season. He would have 500 by now, and he would break his record easily by the time hes 32. Pele was afraid to play in Europe!!

  • Steven

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    Pele never did it in the Champions League so cant be considered one of the world’s best.

  • Haokip

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    You are right irnes…..just see how barca had beaten sao paolo 5-0 in the club wc last time

  • OLA nyc

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    Messi can never be Pele because Messi does not have Garrincha to carry him to glory he will later claim all to himself!

  • Brad

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    Okay, Irnes, you think that Pele was afraid? Maybe, maybe not, but even if he did want to (which he probably did, he attracted a lot of interest from Manchester United and Real Madrid) Pele never would’ve been able to:

    Brazil named him a “national treasure”. This barred Pele from leaving Brazil.

    And the Club World Cup thing, Haokip. I don’t know if you noticed or not, but that was Neymar, not Pele.

    About the Brazilian League, I’d say that Messi would be able to score that many goals today, but imagine putting him in Pele’s day (I know this is a “what if?” scenario, but it’d make sense). Of course, defense would not be so tight, but the defenders that existed then were given an incredible amount of license to perform knee surgery upon any opponent who dared step onto the field. It’s amazing that Pele didn’t get a career-ending injury, so it’d be amazing if Messi didn’t either.

  • bblawal

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    look at what ds old monkey is sayn, didn u look at messi record wt ds small age of him. he is not d same wt u. messi is world number one in history.

  • Haokip

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    Say what you like pele you are not even better than maradona

  • Brad

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    bblawal, how can he be the best in history if Pele had two World Championships by the time he was the age Messi is now?

    Say what you like, even Messi isn’t even better than Maradona. So that means Messi can’t even be equal to Pele.

    Where’s someone who doesn’t give us the same arguments, and still no facts?

  • KazWorld

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    YES Messi is the best but not the best ever aka (greatest). I will always say a complite player should perform good both at club-level and internatinal-level.
    Nevertheless Messi and Ronaldo still have a chace to be the greatest… but as it stands.

    1. Maradona
    2. Pele
    3. Zidane
    4. Messi
    5. C.Ronaldo

    Brad & Cluod are talking with convincing points, some of you are just taliking from without…

  • Haokip

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    Did i ever say that pele played in that club wc final. I was just making a point in order to compare the level of football between europe and brazil to show you that messi would score twice as much if he play in brazil

  • Brad

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    But that’s a “what if?” idea, Haokip, something you seem very good at, and what I personally don’t like going into myself. Take Messi, by himself, and put him in Brazil league, and his goal scoring records will go up, but the twice as much part will require having Xavi and Iniesta with him, I’d say. After all, they’ve done a lot to help him score the number of goals he has with Barca.

    For the record, I knew you were making a point about the level of football TODAY. but what about back then? Defense, as I’ve said earlier, wasn’t as vital back then, particularly in South America, but even in the Latin nations, what defenders that actually existed were given the freedom to hack the opposing side’s star player into pieces. Messi would take just as much, if not worse, of a battering as Pele did.

    Now back to the real deal, and not stupid ‘what if”s. . .

    In Pele’s day, Santos was for a time the best club in the world, and Pele was the best player of the time (AND OF COURSE ALL TIME). They won not 1 but 2 Club World Cups, and I believe both came before Pele turned 24, just like with the actual World Championships.

    Likewise, today, Barca is the best club in the world, with Messi as the best player in the world today (but NOT BEST ALL TIME. . at least not yet). Messi has won 2 Club World Cups by age 24, but he has failed to even get past the quarterfinals of the World Cup knockout stages, let alone win the World Cup.

    So there, Messi has still fallen short of Pele.

    Pele and Maradona both performed at both club and international level. Messi still hasn’t performed meaningfully at international level.

  • Mardon

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    Brad,

    Couldn’t it be that Pele was aslo lucky to have players like Xavi and Iniesta in his team both club and national? Why would you keep attributing their successes solely to Pele?

    Considering that back then football was not as commercialized as it is today, Pele and his national team may have been lucky not to have to compete against teams form europe that were not as full of world class players as they are today.

    It may be that Argentina was not able to prirotize their team’s success in different cups over the past years thanks to their economic problems. Why would you expect Messi to be responsible for the failure of the whole national team?

  • Haokip

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    All of you pele fans have constantly credited messi’s success on xavi,iniesta etc..but fail to mention that pele was also surrounded by players like garrincha,didi,zagallo,nilton santos etc…and without all these players pele would not have achieve anything

  • Brad

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    Mardon, neither you nor haokip have read all my posts. Multiple times I have stated that Pele did depend on Garrincha, Didi, and Zagallo. Those 3 provided ammunition for Pele to score goals on. And the same is so for Messi with his teammates at Barcalona.

    So you can’t say I’m blinded by Pele’s fantastic skills. Neither have I been blinded by Messi’s. To say that Pele would have not have achieved anything, however, is bullshit, and the same is so for Messi. Here’s what’s certain: both wouldn’t have achieved as much as they have if it weren’t for teammates.

    I’ve said this stuff before. No offense, Mardon, as you actually have provided a consistent argument that is actually good, but you sounded just like Haokip and ALL the other Messi fans here: broken records. The reason why I hit on the same things is that every Messi fan hits on the same things. And most of them don’t even provide a good argument, if they even come back to argue at all. Maybe you guys should go back and read every single post that me, Cloud, and Russ Ru have made. We’ve made all remarks by Messi fans redundant. This hasn’t been any different.

  • Fuck Gaynaldo

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    May b all d football fans should know that football isn’t 1man game . Pele dont bark Ur time is gone . U r d worst legend whom i never wanna remember n i never watched ur game .man of black in white era .

  • adrin

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    Pele still the greatest messi hasnt got to the highs of pele no matter what people think or want to think we will see in ten to fifteen years

  • aaron

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    a huge majority of pele’s goals were scored in friendlies against extremely inferior teams and players. look at a breakdown of his goals scored. sorry old man messi has already surpassed you. get over it!!!!!!!!

  • Brad

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    sorry but Messi still hasn’t played in a WC final, Pele played in- and won- 2 finals, and scored in both!!! sorry aaron, but Messi hasn’t surpassed Pele yet, hasn’t even drawn level, get over it!!!!!!

  • Grayson

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    Brad got it right, you’d be a naive fan of the game to think the best dribbler in the world now is all of a sudden the best ever. Achievements is what makes the grade in any ‘best of the best’ decision.
    Messi might have the edge at club level but Pele surpasses all at national level…and cut the crap about whose teammates are better, that is total hogwash…all these players have excellent teammates without them you can win nothing. No one man team exists and ever will – that’s why CR hasnt won a world cup yet and same goes for Messi. Its that simple lads.

  • christian+2347032132745

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    No doubt Messi is a great player. He is still young and he has all the qualities to take him to the top. When it comes to achievements i believe Pele is ahead. This will be a wrong time to compare both soccer legends. Let us all wait till the end of Messi’s career then we will have a clearer picture. Remember that many players started so well but ended their career in a shameful way. Players don’t make names for themselves only on the pitch but also off the pitch. Let us all enjoy the beautiful game and not fight over it.

  • Prince adeyemo

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    Grad, i always cherish ur comments concerning messi,some people hate messi bcos they think age has anything to do wt achievement, leo is excel in football history

  • Brad

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    THANK YOU, Grayson. finally, someone besides me and Cloud has sense in them.

  • Brad

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    Prince, it doesn’t mean he’s already so much as drawn level with Pele, let alone beaten him. He’s earned his spot as a legend, but it’s too early to say he’s the best ever, and anyone who says he is. .. well, they’re a dumb one.

  • James

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    I believe Pele wouldn’t be able to produce the quality he had in today’s game! he played for Santos his whole footballer career pretty much and back then the Brazilians could afford to try him out at the age of 17+, i don’t think the Argentine squads of recent tournaments have helped Messi, and this debate will keep on going on and on, Pele’s friendly game goals were added to his statistics so that it self isn’t a fair debate, i adore messi and pele but think messi is better when having watched both play! I’m not biased, my fav players are honda, ibra, ronaldo, nedved, zidane and so on Pele also said Neymar is as good as Messi, maybe Pele is threatened by Messi’s amzing talent and that he dosn’t gloat about it! Pele just needs to let everything get on and adore the Messi show of this Era, yes pele is a legend and now its Messi’s turn.

  • Brad

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    Thing is, James, there’s no such thing as time travel, so no point in thinking about who’s quality would be better or worse in what era!!!

    But if you insist, Pele would do that. That’s honest. But the same goes for Messi, though in a different fashion.

    The reason why is that, while Messi wouldn’t be up against really good defenders, the defenders he would face would have license to perform knee surgery on him just as much as if they were playing Pele or Maradona. Those two legends right there took a real beating in pretty much every match. Now, Messi doesn’t get that. Why? Because physicality is frowned upon more nowadays, particularly in La Liga (I’ve said this stuff before, I believe). Defenders can’t just dive in and try to break his leg, so they have to hold themselves back. Thing is, that gives Messi the chance to blow past them and leave them for dead. So defenders are caught between a rock and a hard place. In Pele and Maradona’s days, that only happened if they got caught fouling. And yet the physicality of those old days meant that they didn’t get caught so much.

    Pele has praised Messi. He said it in this article. But even if you get technical about the friendly statistics (if you’d like, we can start including Messi’s statistics in friendlies) not counting, there’s still the thing about 3 World Cups. . . unless you truly are biased, which many people who’ve commented here are, you can’t rule that out, particularly when you include that Pele won 2 by the age Messi is now. And somehow, Messi doesn’t even have 1 WC.

  • James

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    you have a fair point, but what makes me drawn to this debate is that the poor quality of football during Pele’s era, watching clips of him at Santos and playing for Brazil just seemed like he was playing amateurs, maybe Pele was way ahead of his time and maybe you can take into account of evolution and how technology, equipment, coaches, and money has made the game in the 21st century more technical and more experienced. a harder platform to make that impact, there are glimpses of Messi being the complete footballer and it obvious how good he is whilst you watch on television,

    this ‘but he has no WC’s’ debate will go on, Pele only helped win 2 he was injured for one of them, if Argentina suddenly have a team as dominate as those Brazilians back then they could have a chance but you dont see that happening.

  • Brad

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    Indeed, and that’s the problem. As good as Messi is, particularly at club level, WC trophies are the ultimate determinate in a player’s career. Also, I don’t think we can help that Pele got injured. Much the same if Messi gets injured in Brazil 2014, and Argentina wins the tourney. . . . but that’s a “what if” thing, no point going there unless it really happens. Then he’d be just like Pele in 62. But when we talk about where Pele wasn’t injured, in 58 and 70, he played as the focal point for a superstar heavy team, much like how Messi is for Barca.

  • JANI

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    PELE WAS FANTASTIC WHEN FOOTBALL WAS BLIND. ALL HE HAD WAS JUST SPEED AND SHOT WITH NO BALL CONTROL WHICH IS NOT A QUALITY OF A GOOD PLAYER. I WATCH OLD GAMES OF PELE: RUN + SHOOT = PELE. HE WAS THE ONLY ONE WHO COULD RUN, NO SENSE, CAN’T CALCULATE. A PLAYER WITH SUCH A QUALITY CAN NOT MAKE A FIRST TEAM IN THE WORLD OF FOOTBALL TODAY.

    I THINK HE HATES MESSI BECAUSE HE IS ONLY JEALOUS OF MESSI. SEEING A MAGICAL MAN ON THE FOOTBALL PITCH, DISPLAYING GREAT DRIBBLING SKILLS MAKES HIM GO MAD. HE WAS NEVER FANTASTIC. MESSI IS A MAN THAT HAS ALL THE QUALITIES OF A GREAT PLAYER. HE HAS EVERYTHING EXCEPT SHOOTING POWER WHICH I DON’T THINK IS AN ADVANTAGE RONALDO EVEN HAS OVER HIM BECAUSE SHOOTING POWER MAKES RONALDO A SELFISH PLAYER LIKE PELE, WHEN MESSI OVERCOMES THAT USING HIS OUTSTANDING DRIBBLING TECHNIQUES.

    PELE IS AFRAID THAT MESSI WOULD BREAK HIS RECORD. MESSI HAS BROKEN MANY RECORDS AND HAS TREMENDOUS EDGE OVER PELE. A HUMAN FROM ABOVE STARTED WINNING WORLD BEST PLAYER AT A TENDER AGE AND IS STILL OUTSTANDING PLAYING LIKE A VERY EXPERIENCED OLD PLAYER WHEN AN UNEXPERIENCED OLD PELE STARTED AT AN OLD AGE. MESSI WILL STILL BREAK THAT HIS USELESS RECORD.

  • Brad

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    How is it that “run+shoot=Pele” when really that should be “run+shoot=Messi”?

    Jani, you’re an idiot. You’re just another one of those just for the moment fans. . . and that’s useless.

    Messi may have more player of the year awards, but that’s nothing compared to winning the World Cup. Messi still hasn’t done that. Pele’s done it 3 times.

    Stop being so opinionated and go through the facts. You’re allowing yourself to be blinded like that, and you have the temerity to say that football was blind? You sound like a certain guy called Don. . . .

  • Sam

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    Jani you are a fanny u cannot say pele is run and shoot he is the standard of the greatest player of all time that messi should be aiming to achieve yes messi is great at club level but with international he is pretty shit didn’t score a goal in the last world cup so he has a long way before Hes winning 1 because argentinas team is nowere near good to win it and Spain are the only team to replicate the brazzilians back in the day

  • peter

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    messi has won under-21 worldcup,d olympic gold,three champions league,three ballon d ‘o nd 5 spanish league nd goals to colour his achievement to me pele is just being jealous abt messi

  • joe

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    Jani is very right Pele and Ronaldo lack what great players should have being a team player not caring bout yourself but about the team messi creates and scores so many goals without being selfish provides it in the big games and broke into a team with henry, eto’o and ronaldinho and brad your argument is stupid because world cups are won by team meaning pele was in a better team not meaning he was one of the best players you could have stuck heskey in that 1970 brazil team and they would have won. Messi has smashed records and one individual prizes in a tougher era ive watched videos of pele play and in the 21st century he would be an average player ronaldo (brazil) was much better than him and played in a much tougher club league end of convo

  • Qosta

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    They r bth great at their tyms…n after some tym they will all both be history

  • nanu

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    hee….hee…!!wat a stupid fellow jani…..do u hv sme sense!!d way u talk bout pele…it seems like he z nthng just a monkey……i want 2 say det plz cntrol ua emtns n blndnss amng messi k…..!!i agreed that nw messi iz eligible to compte wid pele’s record….!!bt we ol knws det evn messi hmslf agreed that ol time greatst plyr evr iz pele….!!!!n so dets y messi is tryng 2 brke his record. so do knw d meaning of w.c…!!just emagine hw big tournamnt is it.,theres no need to explain bout it…..bt messi has nt 1 yet so far…..lets c wats gnna b hppn in future lets wait watch…..!!!!so i hv 2 said that still pele’s d no.1 legend….!!

  • rossi

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    i apreciate with nanu’s points…!!itz honourd to b parts in evn team sqaud hu won d w.c cup….so i think its gnna b vry2 tough to brke pele.’s record…!!he grtst legend evr knw….bt messi has a chance to bRke his record.

  • Tony Hibbert

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    I don’t see why you are all saying Pele played ‘amateurs’ as the only thing that really matters is that he still had to put the ball in the back of the net.
    Pele had done it more times than Messi has at WC’s leading to his three medals, therefore he is and will be for many years, better than Messi.

  • nick

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    im sorry to every messi fan but messi still has to be better than cr7 and the brazilian ronaldo and former teammate ronaldhino and he will never be like pele and no one else in the world will idc if its pele’s son

  • bator

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    Messi is the best player in the rorld. Because if messi wasnt the best he couldent win the ballon dor or the golden ball.
    And he became the first player to score 5 goals in the uefa champions 6teams.
    cr7 has a long way to catch up to messi and he is old as some of my friends say he is 28 years old and retire earlier then messi.
    he is the best and will score 4000 goals and break pele”s record.

  • joe

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    Pele is definitely not the best there are many players better than him his record means nothing as he hardly played in a competitive tough match its like putting messi up against accrington stanley every week maybe messi might not be the best ever but it isn’t a debate between who is better out of messi and pele and although world cups are important i can judge messi by his champions league performances

  • rossi

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    bcoz……!!maxmum of fans luv barca…..!!as we knw det messi ply wel in barca excpt country matchs… dets y messi hv won 3 ballon’dor…..!!!if we judge wel messi vs cr7….messi may b awy from cr7 in league bt cr7 hv plyd lot lot mre den…messi both clubs n country mtchs….if we count wen cr7 in man.utd…!!personaly cr7 u hv provd urslf u hv a capacity to ply in any clubs…!!!bt i dnt think messi wld able to do that…

  • christina@772

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    hiii……..@nick u hv made a exact point…..luv u cr7..!!in ma point of veiw he is ma oltme best plyer eva…..coz he’s got evrythng…money,luks,talent,phycl,.dnt no d world wats gossing bout hm bt i truely luv cr7….

  • Rick

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    What a stupid topic of discussion.. messi isn`t elligible to become a participant if d comparision is wid ronaldo(brazil).. & pele? I haven`t wached too many videos of him.. his records denote what is he.. not a matter of joke to play d world cup for 5times in d 1st squad… he didn’t need drugs like maradona .. even he denied d opportinity of europe..& messi?? Barcelona since 15yrs.. giving arguments of health prblms… messi is a legend indeed..bt nt infront of ronaldo(brazil) 1st of all.. messi wasn`t famous at d age of 19 like neymar…all d messi fans must know actions speaks louder dan words..

  • pure24

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    Thing you should know is that there is no such thing as ‘best player’… That is why the Ballon d’Or is the award for ‘player of the year’. Even goalkeepers have made invaluable contribution to the beautiful game.
    Messi is very good. No, he is amazing – but look up soccer and read what the sport is all about. U will not see ‘dribbling’, or ‘ball control’. Soccer is ‘trying to put the ball in the back of the opposition’s net while stopping them from doing the same’.
    Legends are legends whether you like it, believe it, want it or not…
    Its like the way Brazil are still the ultimate team because of their world cup record. The biggest sport event in the world. The ultimate test for the soccer player; doing it for your country, and not the organization with enough money to buy talent. You win that, and – like it or not – you will be legend

  • Tim

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    Ok, I’ll be the one to say it. The fact of the matter is that messi is he present while pele has only got memories of the past. Why he and maradona continue to rave about something just as controversial as politics is beyond me. The sad thing is that football or soccer or whatever you call it is supposed to be the “beautiful game”; what pele does is almost a crime by tarnishing it with a debate that can’t and never will be solved. It can be proven that pele and maradona are this way just by the coincidence that neither player are in any version of FIFA because who knows how much controversy would erupt if one was rated any more highly than the other.

  • Z

    0 0

    messi is amazing but when it comes to records and world cups pele has the edge over messi.

    although pele played in the brazilian league he still had to put the ball in the back of the net

    messi is my alltime favourite player even though pele has the edge over him

    give meessi till the end of his carrea to get the accomplishments that pele lrft. i think messi can surpass pele but give him time to do so

    MMMMMMMMEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSIIIIIIIIIII

  • shop

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    Comparing Pele nd Messi,i tink it wasn’t right.Pele is a legend we all knw,bt pele has gone he is not coming back to show skills in the picth,Messi is stil playin nd he is doing his best.Lets just wait till the end of Messi’s carrier.If he take it to the highest level which Pele has done i think he will beat Pele without any doubt.For nw Pele is stil the greastest of all.

  • tage

    0 0

    1. maradona.
    2. messi.
    3. ronaldo.
    4. pele.

  • craig j

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    How the hell can u say pelle is better because of two world cups ? he had an imense team behind him and a top manager thats a cup that a team wins not a player. so please dont rate these players on world cups rate them on assists goals and minutes played END OF!

  • craig j

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    pele even sorry

  • ryan

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    Pele needs to get over himself. Yes he was an incredible player, but he can never say anything positive about messi without talking about how great he himself is. Pele we love you but get over yourself man your time is over. Move aside for the new generation’s talent.

  • Bill Gardner

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    I’ve seen Pele and Messi in person, they are or were both fantastic. Pele reinvented football in an era when it was all longballs and defending, Messi is a great scorer but until he dominates on the International Level he cannot be compared to the greatest of all time. When Pele played the chances in Europe were not there for foreign players and the best teams in the World were the Brazilian ones. The game is different now, no more back passes to the keepers hands, what was an acceptable challenge in the 60’s would get a straight red today. The question is would Pele if he were 25 today be as great, I say he would be better as he would have more time and space and less injuries, Messi on the other hand would have a harder time going back in time and playing old school football but he could do it just now that all the rule changes have made the game more open and more stylish, and far less demanding.

  • mandla

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    Having read all the articles about messi and pele am yet to get a response from messi! am sure he is so humbled by the whole comparison thing but what has he to say!! please assist me with information to that regard if any!!

  • Brad

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    The

  • Brad

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    Oops. messed up right there. . . -.-

    Ryan, the thing is, people like to trash Pele and say Messi is the best ever. How that is when he typically only performs at club level, but not at international level. Sure he got a hat trick recently in a friendly against Brazil, but it was a friendly. Much like how quite a few of Pele’s goals were, but only Pele gets criticized for it.

    Exactly how you can compare Messi to Pele favorably is beyond me. Pele has 3 WCs. He performed at club AND international levels. Messi has yet to have won a senior level WC (someone mentioned U-21 WC win earlier, as if that helps Messi against 3 senior WC wins) and normally doesn’t perform for Argentina like he does for Barca. That means he’s still lacking the international level standout.

    Pele is still the best ever, regardless of how arrogant (not to mention, repetitive, which makes it annoying even for me) he sounds. Messi still has a chance of beating him and becoming the best player ever, but he hasn’t even reached the semis of the WC, let alone won that competition.

  • Brad

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    Also, Z, I love that comment.

  • Brad

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    Jeez, I shouldn’t have stopped reading!

    Craig J, Point One, Pele won 3, not 2. Point Two, if you want to downgrade Pele’s achievements for Brazil, then you must downgrade Messi’s for Barca. So don’t rate them on just what they do at one level, rate them on BOTH. Pele still played spectacularly for Santos, even though he didn’t have the exact same teammates (or ones of the same caliber) as he did with Brazil.

    Tell me, someone, ANYONE, if Messi truly is the best ever, how is it he only has the meaningfully spectacular performances at Barca, but only occasionally for Argentina will he put in a spectacular performance? And yet, people think he’s better than Pele who did it for both club AND country?

  • Tim

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    BRAD– I’m not saying that messi is he best ever, but if you compare messi’s teammates on Argentina to pele’s from brazil you should be able to agree that the Brazilian team had a lot more quality than messi has for help in comparison.

  • gree282

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    Pele had a spe tacular team around him for every world cup. All the players excelled in their positions. All mess I has is te ez andaguero. The teams are not equal at all therefore world cups cannot be used to compare these players… the champions league is more competitive anyway. Mess I

  • robert atwiine

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    yes…

  • B

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    It doesn’t matter who had the better team mates because players are judged with statistics, with world cups being the best one to have next to your name, Pele had three i believe, messi zero. History will only remember the numbers, like goals scored, games played and big trophies eg. world cups.Messi is the best player of this generation but not of all time although he still has a chance to attain that title. I do also think that the styles of the era’s in which players play/ed are totally different, red card tackles nowadays would be a perfectly normal tackles back then. So there is not as much time for the player to think about how he will get round the defender. Today there is more time to think because tackles are more controlled and not flying at your knees. I tried not to be biased. But i find it hard to compare because of how different the stlye of football is between the two era’s.

  • Bunts

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    Hi everyone,
    Football is not a one man game, but 1 man can make all the difference. I have seen numerous games of mr messi and mr pele. Probably to early to decide ,however I would like to say with out prejudice pele much, much better in the air, probably a more complete athlete , and what he used to do with inferior boots and balls was just out standing, and I would put maradona ahead of messi at this stage anyway. Pele and Messi both divinely blessed that’s for sure, Maradona probably blessed too , but from the other guy.

  • SamEdwards

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    Messi not up to Pele yet? Ok we will give him that. But there never being another Pele? Out of the question. Messi is only 25

  • Hector

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    Here is the question??? Is a champions league level better or the same as a world cup??? If it’s better or the same shouldn’t that be credited as a world cup championship?? Now… Who is the best!! Messi or Pele??

  • J

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    I give my props to the great pele. But seriously this guy is the only one who still actually believes he is the best footballer of all time. And well that just isnt true. Messi although i am a big fan he still needs to win the world cup for him to become the best footballer in the history of the sport. BUT dont underestimate Messi cause you never know he might just take the world cup in peles home country. But as far as the greatest footballer of all time that honor i have to say goes to … MARADONA!!!

  • mudassir ali

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    well,well,well.as far as the best player is concerned they both are average.the best player who can even dribble against aliens is me MUDASSIR ALI .there you go.

  • Brad

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    @Tim, I know that, which is why I’ve compared how Messi plays for Barca to how Pele played for Brazil. The difference between the two is that Pele won major titles for both club and country.

    You have to have teammates who are talented too. You can’t just have guys who are average joes when compared to that one player who is viewed as the best in the world. That’s basically how it is with Argentina, even with those heavy hitters they have, Messi still needs better.

  • Nigel Tabb Exeter

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    Pele played well for his country Messi has disapointed while playing for argentina

  • Franco11

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    dd u miss me in ur arguments gents i see brad u still stand firm.wers russ ru and clouds opinions

  • Brad

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    Oh hey, Franco. I have no clue where Cloud and Russ are. . .

    By the way, I didn’t even notice how much has happened here. . . bunch of people comment and I comment back.

  • Marcos........ (Egede)

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    Lionel Messi is d greatest footballer ever in worldof football. Not Pele or Maradona, bcos in time of Pele n Maradona der was no one to compear den on d pitch, why in d time of Lionel Messi we have much to compear him n yet he’s much more better den all of dem. Highly better dan dem all. I guse Pele is jelous over he’s Magic wit d ball on his left foot as if it belongs to him alone,’ we have Ronaldinho,C Ronaldo,Iniesta,Kaka n many more but der ar not of his level, he’s much more n highly d best of all. Pele should go have sit he is nobody compear to Messi.

  • Marcos........ (Egede)

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    Messi is just d best n dat is d truet.

  • Brad

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    Hey, Marcos, how about some facts, the opinion you gave is nothing new.

  • Arif

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    Pele is not aware of the reality. He talks whatever he likes-logical or illogical. Messi is someone who play alone to make difference while pele used to with mamy other to make the difference.So pele cannot be compared with Messi.

  • Pure24

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    Guys!
    Eish, don’t let opinion get the better of you bcoz nobody will convince anybody. Then everybody will start fighting until somebody gets hurt…
    Firstly, never compare footballing times. Who’s to say it was ‘easier’ that time than this time? Only the memories of glorious events remain so its unfair to compare a few clips of one legend (yes, Pele is a legend – deal with it!) with all the might of the current superhero.
    Secondly, facts are facts. Ronaldo won the La Liga, but Messi bagged more goals – and hence he was a better soccer ‘striker’. However, Ronaldo was a more successful soccer ‘player’ in terms of league achievement…
    Lastly, the situations are different. Pele’s tally is up to retirement. Therefore, Messi will only be less than him if he retires with less goals and World Cup final trophies. But if you can’t wait, then just face the current facts, regardless of the personal feeling. Swallow your pride and admit it – Pele is a better ‘striker’ and ‘player’… Both on goal tallies and Soccer achievements (and don’t you go bringing the Champions League; because of the different regions they played in, only the World Cup counts).

  • Jackman

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    When u compare Ronaldo and Messi, you don’t say Real Madrid has less skilled players than Barca or Ronaldo can shoot better from huge distance, cross killer balls and take deadly freekicks as conpared to Messi. U say Messi broke records, and scored more goals. Why should you say different today – “Pele faced ‘easier’ defenders!!!”
    Who are you to judge skill and think your opinion will be accepted by everyone?!
    Fancy footwork, perfect balance and excellent ball control is all fine, but so is sprint speed, power, dribbling, stamina and vision.
    Pele might be a lousy old jealous fool (and I think he is), but that does not make him any less of a player and I’m sorry but, he is way, way better than Messi whether u argue or not. The facts are not biased. Humans are

  • Brad

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    Thank you, Jackman. Nicely phrased. and you, too, Pure24.

  • NIGEL TABB EXETER ST PLYMOUTH

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    Pele or Lional well to be honest Diago Maradonna was better than bith of them.

  • NIGEL TABB EXETER ST PLYMOUTH

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    both i meant lol

  • Pure24

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    Thanks Brad!!!
    Its good to think facts… When did one-sided victory become the best victory? You make a good point…

  • Allan

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    As compare to those times Maradona is better than Pele. Pele is just a striker not a playmaker. A striker to score Goals, but as Pele said abt Messi he is wrong, he’s a playmaker n yet he score many goals.

  • Brad

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    3 World Cups> 1 World Cup> 0 World Cups.
    3 World Cup Final Match Goals> 0 for both Maradona AND Messi, the latter not even reaching the final by the age that Pele had already won TWO Championships. And don’t give me crap about Pele’s teammates, that’s just exactly where Messi gets his ammunition at club level: his teammates. Haven’t you noticed that Leo’s stats for the Albiceleste are far less impressive than his club records? Or, for that matter, Pele’s records for BOTH club AND country.
    Even Maradona’s stats aren’t as impressive.

  • Dxpat

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    @marcos. I totally disagree with you. Right now messi’s only competitor is C.Ronaldo, and messi is way ahead of him. U can’t compare his time as champion to d time of Zidane, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo when there were talents fightin 4 d Ballon award. Today its jst Messi n Ronaldo n it rlly sucks!

  • Soccer Punch

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    oh man.. you cant compare two people from different time/era, it’s like comparing Lebron James to Michael Jordan.. aight? so stop arguing about who’s the greatest footballer of all time. this thing will not end if you continue comparing the two.

  • Q.Villa

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    Just curious….. If Messi was to be a spain international and with the spanish achievments so far, will you consider as the best over Pele? Personally….. if we cast out the worldcup trophies and rate them both based on individual play, i think Messi have edge over great Pele. What ya’ll think?

  • Brad

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    @ Q. Villa, fair point, but that’s a “what if” thing that ain’t gonna happen. Football isn’t just about individual play, it’s about team play, too, and about working together to win trophies.

    In that case, Messi should have the advantage at club level, I don’t know. . . but at national team level, he hasn’t won a single trophy. And yet he’s being compared to Pele, who is the only person to have won 3 WC. And any nonsense about Pele’s teammates for Brazil is redundant, as Messi has the same support at Barca.

  • Akinsehinwa Solomon Sola

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    It is not right for Pele to ALWAYS challenge Messi. Pele must allow people to decide who is who in the FOOTBALL HISTORY, not DEFENDING himself!

  • pure24

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    @ Akinsehinwa, Pele has every right to defend himself… Its his success. Who would stand back and just let others say u r no good wen u clearly enjoyed the most success. And anyway, whichever side you take, you are mostly speaking from a biased point of view. But the fact ARE the facts.

    Personally, I am yet to find out how a successful person can be better than someone who has more than three times his success! Someone please, without all this easy-league-good-teammates-wacky-defenders rubbish, answer that. Soccer is soccer… 1902 or 2012

  • Brad

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    Wow. That beats anything and everything I said, pure24. But you know some idiot is going to continue the bigotry.

  • Mikhail

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    Pele scored about 670 goals in OFFICIAL matches… messi will can still catch that… he’s been improving his goals every season and entering his prime he can easily rock 300 goals in the next 4 seasons. As for pele he won 2 world cups really… Both played with great teammates… But deciding factor skill level rose significantly in modern game football is more popular and there are a lot of professionals. Pele would be a star player but not super star player imo.

  • Brad

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    So I’m guessing Ronaldo (Brazil) only won 1 WC really? Mikhail, you actually used sense, unlike so many other people (THANK YOU) but you still missed one bit, and that is non-playing members of each championship-winning side were awarded WC medals too, by FIFA, just a few years ago.

  • Wiz

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    Pele won 3 worldcup trophees (1958, 1962, 1970) ’58 he received the silver ball, ’62 he played 2 matches n got injurd, ’70 he received the golden ball. No golden shoe. He scored around 1200 goal which includes 77 goals scored for brazil. His clubs were santos, brazil n newyork cosmos, usa.
    Messi won 2005 under 20 world cup n 2008 olympic, on both occasions he received both the golden ball n golden shoe. Messi scored around 300 goals up to now, 19 goals for the national team. Great number of assists. Messi received 3 golden ball, player of the year awords & 2 times came in 2nd with the silver ball. Club; barcelona, spain.

  • Brad

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    Your putting U-20 and Olympic championships- both youth tournaments- against 3 full World Championships right there. Not a fair fight, but seeing as Messi hasn’t even reached a WC semi. . .

    Also, there’s an error on Messi’s goal count for Argentina. Somewhere around 25, I think.

    Still, Pele’s still superior, particularly at national level, where it counts the most.

  • Pure24

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    Just so we are clear, Messi and Pele played in different times.
    I can bet my left hand (I’m left handed) any day that everyone here has watched Messi more than Pele. And the only thing there is of Pele are YouTube videos, bits and pieces of matches played and some ESPN Classic matches displayed on TV. Maybe some DVD or VCR of the guy. Based on that you will definitely see more of Messi’s skill than Pele’s. But just becoz you don’t see it doesn’t mean its not there.
    Just in Spain, Messi is yet to have: most career league goals (he’s ranked twelve, by the way), most away goals in a season, most league matches scored in, Cristiano Ronaldo scored against every team last season – which Messi is yet to do, fastest 100 league goals (Too late am afraid – C. Ronaldo has that one)… And its pointless to go on

    PS: As a side-note, spell-check is underlining Messi and Ronaldo (in Red) to correct 4 the spelling, but (maybe I’m colour blind) nothing for Pele!!!

  • NthaniRolex

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    Whoa hold on a second @Pure24!! dont get ahead of yourself, Messi is unbelievable! we should also consider the champions league ‘coz well according to Sir Alex and Jose its prbbly better than the WC! Pele ddnt win those three WC alone, he was just fortunate to be in a generation full of amazing players, argentina lackzz the coach, buh they hv the ability to b better than the samba king….. Messi is better in termzz of skill, agility, and just plain magic!!!!!! So please get your factzz in order!!

  • Oybek

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    Pele cements he was great in the past and unilaterally projects Neymar will be great in the future. It would be fair of him if he at least admitted that Messi is unmatched today. After all, he know better and more than most people about football. While his forecast about no one beating him in the future is quite inconsiderate, he may be right in that like every other field, football has advanced too much and become too competitive for players to repeat his records. When Messi broke Cruff’s record last season, he embraced his achievement by famously admitting ” the records are set to be broken”, for which he deserves all the respect.

  • Brad

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    NthaniRolex, you told Pure24, (btw, Pure, I’m also left-handed) “not to get ahead” of himself. But then you got ahead of your own self.

    The European Champions League is the best competition there is in the world. . . at club level. Barcalona is the world’s best club team right now for sure, and even I think they could already be the best club team of all time.

    Here’s the catch, Nthani:

    You stated Pele didn’t win the # WC’s by himself, and that he was fortunate to be in a golden generation. That is redundant, and has been for a long time; had you done any reading, you’d have discovered a telling counter-argument that me and several others have seen that Messi has the SAME advantage with Barcalona. However, at national team level, Pele played in a time when only 16 teams could qualify for the WC. This means that only the truly bona fide competition, plus a handful of smaller teams, would play at the tournament. Not so today, 32 teams qualify, and Messi just happened to have played in 2 WCs, with only 1 goal in 8 matches to his name. If I’m correct, any time he played against those bona fides, he didn’t do as good as we expect. Messi has the misfortune of not having teammates at Argentina as he does with Barca, but surely, if he was the greatest of all time, that wouldn’t matter, right?

    While Pele is fairly rude with his comments, it must be noted that the facts can be rude in themselves!! Of course, the number of goals Pele scored (approx. 1280, always hear different accounts of what the precise tally is) and 3 World Cups will be hard to draw level with, let alone beat, even for Messi!!! Messi is the best player in the world today, but not all time.. . though he can change that, he has the chance.

  • Pure24

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    Just before I say something (I’m already saying something by the way), let me remind you all – do you remember Ronaldinho?
    I do. I also remember how some people were saying that he was the greatest EVER! And that nobody will be greater than him – the same guys changed their minds three years ago!!!

    Brad
    I do not agree with you on one issue: Messi has magnificent playmates in Argentina – Its just like how Brazil, Netherlands or Germany is awesome, but all fell to Spain (technically, Spain weren’t the ones who took them all out). But you make an awesome point – wow, you are also left-handed? Sweet!
    Nthani doesn’t know what he is saying – he has never even watched Pele. Lane changes and step overs don’t make someone great. I bet you if Neymar continues to grow, people will say “HE IS THE GREATEST EVER”. Look at it from many angles, not just a single match… And those of you making promises, just don’t. WE DON’T KNOW if Messi will beat Pele – right now, he’s way behind. Way, way behind. I mean, Arsenal claim they’ll win the league EVERY SEASON!!!
    PS: I forgot – Messi doesn’t rally do step overs!

  • James

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    Messi is the best player to step on a pitch, ! im talking about playing the game! exclude accolades, Messi is better in every department!

  • Brad

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    Pure, I didn’t mean that part about Argentina as in his teammates there are pure crap, I meant that they’re not the same caliber as his teammates in Barca.

    Coincidentally, since you’re left-handed, are you also left footed like me? lol

  • Pure24

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    Um… Yes actually, am left footed.
    At James, ‘every department’ is too huge for any one player… Can Messi play as goalkeeper?! Anyway, am moving to the side. Getting back to the topic, Messi is not better in the goals department. Seriously, how is Messi better at scoring goals?
    And how can someone score almost a thousand more goals and not be more skilled. Messi fans always use this excuse (about Messi scoring more goals than, say, Ronaldo), even when the goal-difference is four goals! But now it becomes a different story

  • Dan

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    If you all don’t know, Pele’ scored only 760 official goals, other goals came from friendlies & army games. Messi had scored 296 official goals up to now & has almost 150 assists. When you talk about world cups it is better to talk about how many times they were the best player of the world cup. Pele’ was the best player only in 1970, Messi never was.

  • Fencer

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    Pele is THE MOST OVERATED PLAYER EVER. He says hes scored over 1000 goals yet this can not be verified as it probably includes when he was a 4 year old playing on the streets of Rio or wherever he’s from. He has never played in Europe and only won things for crappy Brazilian teams although the World Cups are fabulous achievements. I
    He is so deluded!!! He is not even top ten in my eyes! Platini,Cryuff,Muller,Beckenbaur,Riva,Baggio,Messi,Zidane, Gascoigne,Maldini to name just some who can profess to be the best ahead of that ridiculous self absorbed idiot! All of the above have won and played in major competitions. I include Gaza because he should of been rated up there. Not forgetting of ourse Puskas,Best,Moore but the GREATEST WITHOUT DOUBT IS DIEGO MARADONA, WITHOUT QUESTION!!! Nobody can possibly argue as the facts are all there. So please Pele just F##k O## you stupid OVERATED mental old man.

  • sagar silwal

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    [nepal besishahar] the argentinian superwave{messi}is the symbol of the good legend
    like pele who praised messi that their level n quality is equal

    ……messi is the 2nd form of pele

  • Brad

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    Fencer, we asked for facts, not such insufferable, opinionated insults. We’ve had plenty of those.

    Maradona was a druggie, cheating buffoon, and is far more narcissistic than you suggest Pele is.

    No one has 3 WC, besides Pele. As a matter of fact, Messi has only 1 WC goal to his name, in 8 matches. Pele has 12 in 13. And that was back in the days when only the bona fide teams, plus an outsider or two, made it to the biggest tournament of all. Much tougher than Messi has it today.

  • Bentley. Husbands

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    Pele is the best person to have ever played the game of soccer. Ball skill, speed. Scoring ability was great. The only way to stop him was to foul him or kick him out of a game. Messi is good, also Ronoldo just do not have the same ability. pele was winning world cups from a young age.

  • lilbad97

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    klisen ur saying u cant compare time but really of the top of ur head name good defenders or goal keepers in peles time the messi`s`time they are different team is most important messi has it set with barca but hes got it set with argentina too they are set up nice compare to brazil back then no they arent close but u guys are talking bout stats how do u u have all of pele`s stats against messi`s stats if u havent noticed messi is only 25 and to add up the games hes played now every season and take the same seasone as pele messi is beter u guys say internatonal games are the most important pele was not alone peles never got the golden
    ball to say he was the best in his team brazil is just wrong cause not one year has he got more goals then his teamates therefore this discussion hes beter than hime can not be disscussed until messi retires because u cant compare a legend to a legend in the making im argentinian and yeah i think pele was great but just like messi they both need good teamates beside them

  • Guddy

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    @fence. Even if u include and double all d goals messi scored wen he was 1yr old, and the ones he scored in his dreams, it wuldn’t equal that of pele’s. Messi is not overated, bt wil definitely be only wen compared wit pele. Talkn abt futbal den n now, even if u ar given a ball with oponents of children at d ages of 8yrs, r u sure u culd score dat much like pele. Smtimez I wonda if dat record culd eva b broken, hw did he manage 2score dose?

  • Pure24

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    At Dan, so many tally’s… wikipedia says 541 League goals, and 1281 in toal. Way ahead of Messi – and he’s player of the century. I don’t need to put any onpinions on that!
    At Lilbad97, if you check what Pele said: “When Messi has scored 1,283 goals and won three World Cups, then we will talk.” We don’t know what the future holds… Messi may beat his record, he may not. But instead of guessing, we are talking about the present. And right now, Messi is way, way, WAY behind Pele

  • michael greene

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    It is bad enough for the rest of us to be discussing who was the best player ever. But when one of our candidates comes in public claiming that title, it is ridiculous. I always was a fan of Pele and watched him play many times both for Brazil and for his club Santos. But every time he opens his mouth he talks rubbish. Romario says that Pele while he keeps his mouth shut is like a beautiful orchestra !!!

  • Brad

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    Thing is, Michael, he has far more stats in his favor , even when he was Messi’s age, than Messi does.

    That right there is where it’s at. The truth can sound ugly, and arrogant, but what Pele said. . . is true.

  • cloud

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    Who has won the World Cup when he was barely 18 years old and won it by scoring two goals in the finals ??? – PELE.

    That achievement alone, on one has yet to emulate. Not Zidane, nor R9.

    Messi ?? Only with Barca. And that’s it.

  • Anthony

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    Messi is a great player, And so is pele, pele is the better player because of his international ability, like cristiano Ronaldo is also better than messi because he also dominates at international level. Messi will be the best when he wins golden boot at world cup, Argentina win the world cup and messi dominates every game.

  • cloud

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    .. that is why many people are not so sold out with Messi becoz of his below par performance with Argentina.

    .. that’s why Messi won’t leave Barca coz he knows that he can’t survive without the help of Iniesta and Xavi.

    .. an equation would be very simple to construct with this arguement::

    pele = medals for club + medalsss for country

    messi = medals for BARCA ONLY + zero for country.

    .. having said that, why are people still defending messi ??

  • Brad

    0 0

    Cause they’re blind and, in the words of an old friend, “prejudicial”. ’nuff said.

  • Blaugrana

    0 0

    Pele is off his med’s again. Pele was great but unfortunately his stats are greatly inflated by his own hand.
    I believe that Messi is and will be ONE of the greatest players to ever play the game. At 25 years old he has many years ahead to achieve that greatness.

  • Pure24

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    Brad, Anthony and Cloud… Really like your comments: So far, I have not read ANY proper reason why Messi is better than Pele – not even one!
    I mean, ‘Pele faced easier defenders’? ‘Messi has “more skill” than Pele’? Really guys?

  • Brad

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    Duly noted, Pure. Well, more than duly, I suppose. . .

    Also, another example like the ones you gave of improper reason is right above your previous comment: “At 25 years old he has many years ahead. ..”

    Quite frankly, this guy stated that Messi’s already the best all time, especially when he made an attack on Pele not having his meds. Still not a single fact to support him.

    Messi is already an all-time great in my opinion. BUT, to say he’s the best there has ever been is bull. He hasn’t even won a World Cup, for crying out loud, and that’s the trophy no player can be complete unless they have it on their resume.

  • Pure24

    0 0

    Exactly. A player is great by working in cohesion with his teammates. Messi is that at Barcelona. A player becomes even more great as a solo player Once again, Messi can take matters into his own hands… So Messi IS great. But Pele great? Not even close

  • cloud

    0 0

    .. winning three world player awards in succession doesn’t make you the All-Time Greatest Football Player.

    .. what makes a football player a God is when you have done everything there is for your Club and Country.

    .. i would even say that Zidane and R9 are better than Messi. These players don’t carry any “record” with them, but their drive and determination helped their clubs and their countries win multiple trophies.

    .. take r9 for example, he had a major knee injury last 2001 but he came back and played in the 2002 World Cup and rolled over everyone in his path. Now that’s what you call a god-like player.

    .. and let’s see how messi is with argentina; he was not even visible in Copa America 2011; he can’t even score a goal against Bolivia, Costa Rica and Colombia. Messi already has 2 World Player awards back then, but he can’t even show it in against lowly teams.

  • cloud

    0 0

    .. and as for the current crop of players, i would say Iniesta and Xavi are better than Messi. These two has helped Barca dominate and also helped Spain to win and defend their Euro title and of course, the WC.

  • Brad

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    And they’ve also created a large number of Messi’s goals to boot. Look at how low his goals per match ratio is for Argentina, when compared to his ratio for Barca.

  • mamu

    0 0

    lionel messi is the only footballer in ancient and modern times that dribbles his way out of any defense in the world.he does not care how good your defense is.He shatteres any defence and is the hardest player to mark in the history of football.If you look closely,messi is never marked by single or two players.he can’t be marked by a defender but destroys a whole defense.no soccer player was this much important to mark,there are always 4 or 5 marking him and none in soccer ever possessed such skill.maradona scored by dribbling 5 english players and that was the greatest goal ever scored.Messi scored at least 10 goals of that magnitude last season.why can’t you just see.

  • Brad

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    Why can’t you just see it’s not just skill and dribbling that helps you be the best, it’s winning silverware to PROVE it, for BOTH club AND COUNTRY! So far, Messi has only done it at club level! He’s not the best, mamu. Pele is.

  • Tony

    0 0

    Pele was good
    Maradona was better
    Messi is best

  • Brad

    0 0

    Incorrect. The real saying is “Maradona? Good. Pele? Better. George? BEST!”

    but we all know Pele is still better, you can see it, you just don’t want to admit it.

    I’ll go ahead and say Messi is already an all-time great, but he’s not even level with, let alone better than, Pele. He hasn’t even won a WC, so how do you expect him to be better, especially as he’s virtually invisible for Argentina more often than not in any game?

  • messi d10s

    0 0

    Haha pele you old fart I thought u were dead already! . Here we go pele with his stupid comments lay off that meth man! This comment is as stupid as your other ones which say neymar is better than messi! Haha your a fucken joke pele .just shut ur mouth and let people remember you as the great pele not the pele that makes stupid comments cuz he’s pissed off Brazil doesn’t have the best player anymore ! Cant face the fact messi is already greater than you! . Messi is the greatest in the history ! Neymar lost gold medal match against Mexico! Sorry pele u need rehab lay off those rocks!

  • Brad

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    And someone needs to grow up. His eyes have yet to even open, so of course he can’t see the fact that all he did is sound like a little child and Pele is still the best all time and Messi still has a long way to go to even reach Pele, let alone pass him.

  • mamum

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    BRAD and ALIKE
    You should know that there is a difference between the best player ever and the greatest player ever.pele is the greatest but s for the best,you know deep down that none has ever nearly reached the quality that messi has.can you really tell me that pele,a guy that was ok with the ball is the best there ever was?, come on there was maradona.you should know that pele was lucky to have 3 world cups.he personally won one, 1962 was won by garrincha,and the 1970 medal was not given to him in the first place.pele was good and there is no doubt about that.But the world has never seen or heard what messi is doing right now and you have no argument on this.
    as for his performance in argentina,you clearly did not watch the recent argentina brazil game.he singlehandedly won the game and don’t even say brazil is not a good team.
    leo messi can be criticized now,but for a 25 year old boy to be considered as the best there ever was,we don’t base our arguments on such a big issue without rational proof.
    if messi was a story, people like you brad will be the villains and when messi retires,he will surely be honored as the best there ever was.
    as for pele,he was clearly not the best player ever.he did not come to europe and prove to the world how good he was.the brazilian teaM consist of greats like rivaling,tostao,carlos alberto and garrincha.you can go and see the 1970 world cup and there were equally good players like pele on the team.the edge that he has over his teammates is that when he was a 17 year old boy,he came of from the bench when hope was lost and brought glory to brazil eight years after the heartbreak of 1950 maracana.pele was great but he never played the champions league.what can you say about cryuff,maradona,bobby charlton,george best(whom pele acknowledged was better than him),pushkas,alfredo di stefano,guiseppe meazza,zidane,ronaldinho,zico,socrates,garrincha,cantona ,ronaldo,ronaldo,eusebio,romario,hagi.these equally matched pele and some were better than him.his 1200+ goals were just his own calculation.some were even from personal local goals.
    pele was no doubt good but to say he is the best is out of question.he certainly was the greatest but definitely not the best.the matter of choosing the best player is a big one and lionel messi certainly is making his tory everyday and is the only one capable of being attributed the title of the best ever.At least for now.

  • Brad

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    Tsk, Tsk. . . you’re really coming at me with that? that fist bit: “You should know there is a difference. . .”

    Quite plainly, no difference at all, Mamum. People like you Mamum, are the Democrats (read: Liberal fools) in a Presidential (or Prime Minister) election.

    By the way, Pele did play in the Champions League.. . . the South American one, the Copa Libertadores, I believe it’s called. And he won a few Club World Cups to boot, along with the South American CL.

    It’s convenient that you compare Pele to guys who won at least one CL, but share one thing in common with Messi: NOT A SINGLE WORLD CUP TO THEIR NAMES, in fact, George Best and Alfredo di Stefano, and Cantona never even played in one (In Georgie’s case, it was his own fault, he didn’t feel proper pride in his country; in the latter two’s case, x factors such as injury and bans came into play). And the fact he came off the bench to bring glory to Brazil in 58, shows he was pivotal.

    Also, something I’ve pointed out a MILLION+ times to other people like you: You say that it’s down to Pele’s teammates that he won 3 World Cups. Quite right, for a change. Here’s why: You can’t do everything alone in football, it’s a team sport. Teammates are everything. The SAME goes for Messi. Look at his achievement at club level with Barca. Look at who are the two best playmakers in the world: Zavi and Iniesta. Notice they assist a majority of the goals Messi scores. And notice, how much lower his goals per match ratio for Argentina is, where he doesn’t have those two to support him. Again this is an x factor that is uncontrollable- such as Pele’s injury in 62- but surely, if Messi was truly the greatest all time, that wouldn’t matter.

    The thing is, Mamum, both Pele AND Messi are the crown jewels of already superstar heavy squads. It just happens that Pele was the big guy on campus at both club AND international level (where it counts the most) while Messi has still yet to truly make an impact for Argentina, particularly in a major tourney at Senior Level. When you compare that to Pele scoring 6 goals in just 4 games in his first world cup, you’ll see Pele is better. So why compare a friendly to a World Cup? Honestly. . . I’m American, and we just won our first ever match against Mexico in their home stadium. Likewise, we also won our first ever game against Italy. Thing is, they were friendlies. Once we do that in a real tournament, then we’ll talk. Same goes for Messi’s hat trick against Brazil. Yes, Brazil is tough, possibly the toughest team of all-time, but friendlies are still something to not get excited about.

    You’re still every bit as subjective as everyone who supports Messi. Yes, I’m subjective myself, but I’ve been a lot more objective about it. Many of those people you mentioned won the World Cup, but no one beside Pele has won 3. In fact, you just tried to compare guys like Cruyff and Puskas, and co., who didn’t even win World Cups to Pele, and that sounds familiar. . . oh yeah, Messi hasn’t won a WC, and you seem to think he’s greater than Pele. How ridiculous, for you to compare ANYONE (even Georgie) favorably to Pele.

  • mamu

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    Brad brad
    i’ll be more specific this time.
    It seems as though you don’t get my point.PELE is the most decorated player there ever was.no question.but brad he played football when there was no offside.how different would todays soccer be without an offside.Certainly, filipo inzaghi could have had a 1000 goals by his side.
    You can argue that mexico 70 was the first offside world cup but hey,go and watch the world cup 70 and tell me pele could have had 1000 goals if the offside was there.
    when Maradona was voted by the world as the best ever,fifa(a corrupt organization with no question) sabotaged the results and claimed that fifa officials will be the ones to vote.
    I am not even arguing about the great maradona(an argument which you can’t win by the way).nah.leonel messi.I just don’t know why people like you just cannot see something right before your very eyes.
    BRAD, Honestly, I am a manutd supporter for over 10 years and I saw what he did to us in 2009 and 2011.there are some thing one just cannot oppose.
    you claim that messi is always assisted by xavi and iniesta, you are certainly do not watch barcelona games regularly.
    you should look at all the 73 goals messi scored last season and please find out if xavi and iniesta assisted 15 please.xavi and iniesta are always not high in assists but people always use this against mess.They are gr8 players but go and look at the assist table over the years and see for yourself.I am not saying they don’t assist him, they do but he is not entirely dependent on them and can work with any decent players.
    As for his 73 goal tally,this is something pele could only dream of.his highest season was 110 goals.
    i urge you to look at the 73 goals and tell me if that is the creativity of someone like xavi and iniesta.
    you claim that he does nothing in argentina and that he only plays well in friendlies.again, you really don’t watch south american qualifiers.
    You should feel ashamed if you can mock messi who is only 26(God knows when he’ll stop mesmerizing teams) by claiming he has not won a world cup.I don’t care if he wins the world cup or not for surely he is the best that has ever been seen.Even maradona acknowledges the fact that messi was better than him.We all know that maradona was the best before messi.
    I think you have a grudge over argentina and I believe you are a brazil fan.I really do understand you because you have been producing great players for over a century and there is a saying that ” you ay be excellent,but not braziliant”. I believe that brazil have the highest amount of soccer superstars not question.So for a young argentine to be considered as the best ever is a huge blow to brazil as a whole.
    Pele,maradona,ronaldo,zidane, these are certainly the top 4 players we have ever seen on tv no doubt but all of them can be marked by a single individual.Messi is a player that goes past anyone,any team,at will.He does it with ease in a manner that makes a first time soccer viewer see the sport as easy.
    Brad,you know the truth and even if you are not convinced now,you will in the future.
    i urge you to see barca games this season.he will break his 73 goal record and set another one surely.7 already nd the season is just getting started.
    you know that to win 3 world cups is almost impossible.the only great top come close to that is ronaldo(2) and maradona( who was controversially left out at 78,won 86, lost 90 unluckily.The mere fact that pele boasts about his 3 world cups is even shocking.he had luck and one should not boast about outcomes he has no control of having.pele was great no doubt and will certainly be in football folklore till the end of time.But as alive as he is now,He and some ppl like you who are biased in nature dont want to admit the mere fact that a simple and humble little boy from argentina who is only 26 is considered better than the great pele.Pele is an offside legend and the offside is a general and integral part of the game.
    The simple truth is that it changes everything.offside is the reason why pele will never have an edge over maradona.but we’re talking messi here.At 26, he is by far that best player ever televised and we have not heard from folklores either in eqypt or in ancient greece about anyone that can dribble past any obstacle in football,is a threat any second he holds the ball,marked by 4 people at all times and can’t go out of every situation
    Brad has no point but to take this conversation longer.am tired of this argument and whats worse is the fact that I know I am right.

  • greg

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    1 Maradona
    2 Messi

    long,long nobody after and then maybe….maybe
    Pele but it’s very doubtful because there are players like R9,Zidane,Best

  • Vilen

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    Pele is going senile. No I am not saying Messi is better than Pele, because that is a stupid comparison, but Pele saying he is better because he won 3 world cups? Doesn’t he aknowledge that he had a team? He came into one of the strongest teams at the time. I mean a player that sat on the subs bench for 3 world cup wins should be considered runner up to Pele then, I mean 3 World Cup winners medals will be his…

    Talent wise, Pele was ahead of his time he played a style which is closer to that of the modern game, but Messi is the master of the modern game, so IMO it is impossible to compare the 2.

  • thanasis charalambous

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    messi is gonna be the best player in the world if he win a WC. only then. but now if he stops his career noone will forget him. pele plays only in america that is important. and do not forget messi isnt a forward. is a winger

  • mamu

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    its a shame that people like brad think that only strickers can be the best of all time..They seem to be subjective on this matter and yet they claim messi fans are.
    Its a shame no one brought the offside matter in February and now brad is finally silenced.You can never convince anyone that a guy that played during an offside era is better than those that play after the offside.As creative as brad is, This has got to make him doubt his stance on pele

    Ppl like brad think that statistics is the most important thing in deciding the best of all time.I would like to tell you that football is not mathematics and if it were,mancity would have beaten arsenal 11-0! Last season.

  • cloud

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    .. mamu, football or any other sports will be decided with statistics. If it will be based subjectively, all of our favourite players will be best-of-all-time.

    .. if i were to decide subjectively, i would say RAUL is the best player of all time. But that would be foolish.

    .. it’s even foolish to say that messi is the best of all time, he still haven’t won anything for his country, that will always be a dent in his career.

    .. and talking about argentinian players, why do they treat maradona as God ?? Was it because of his exploits in Club Level ?? NO !! It’s because he won the World Cup for Argentina, he lead them to Glory. And so is Zidane and so is R9.

  • Csanad Horvath

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    basically never. no offense to messi but he will never win 3 worldcups. but he is better than pele. the tricks those days wouldnt even trick a dog today. Pele is good but messi and ronaldo are better, thats why i think maradonna is 1st, messi is 2nd, and c. ronalso is 3rd. ronaldinho, pele, ronaldo, cafu, roberto carlos, beckanbauer, puskas, di stefano, zidane all come close but messi is obviously better.

  • Brad

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    “Played football when there was no offside?”

    Nonsense, mamu. Offside rule was invented back in the 1800s. Pele played in the 1950s, 60s, and 70s. Don’t try and be funny.

    Though I do agree with you on FIFA being corrupt. . .

    And pal, I’m a United fan myself. I saw the same stuff you saw. I still do, as I fortunately received a channel recently that shows a lot of la liga action, so saying I don’t watch them regularly is also redundant. But statistics is what determines things like this, not opinions. In my case, and Cloud’s it’s actually both stats and opinion.

    I like what Cloud said. If it were up to me, Wayne Rooney would be the best ever player, not Pele. Or I could go with Landon Donovan, or Clint Dempsey, or even Lionel Messi. . . yes, I do love watching him play, unless United is his opposition!!!

    But sadly, it takes statistics to determine who’s best. And when it comes to that, Messi’s stats with Argentina aren’t as shocking as those he has with Barca, particularly in tournaments. He hasn’t won a Copa America (I’m not sure, but I do believe Pele did win one or two, I’ll have to google it), and he hasn’t even won a World Cup either; considering the World Cup defines a player far more than anything else, that is a big hole in Messi’s resume. Something that I know he’ll do his outstanding best to rectify, I know, but will his personal best be enough? He scored 73 goals this past season, as you said, which is eye-popping, but it didn’t bring la liga or champions league to Camp Nou. That part is what gets me scratching my head as to how it never happened. Yeah, the Catalan side won the Supercoppa, but nothing else that I can recall (please do remind me if there is anything else they won).

    I’m not sure of Pele’s specific stats, goals-wise and overall silverware- at the age of 26, but one thing that stands out is 2 World Cups to his name. If you were to downsize that, then you’d have to downsize R9 winning the WC in 94, due to him not playing there. Or, since we’re United fans, you’d have to downsize Roy Keane when we won the 99 CL, for not playing in it.

    Another thing, please don’t make assumptions of me. I’m not a Brazilian fan. I enjoy watching them, but my teams are the good ol’ USA and Manchester United. The way I watch Brazil is the way I watch Barca, an outsider entranced by the team’s overall flair, plus the superstars up front.

    I know I’m right. Statistics don’t lie, both in real life and in sports, and in history. I already know that offsides was invented roughly around the time the Laws of the Game were written down. That’s a good, um. . . 70, maybe 80 something years before Pele was even born. So Pele’s tally isn’t due to no offsides.

    You have failed to silence me. You’ve only brought up old arguments from before (apart from maybe one or two new ones) and I’ve answered in pretty much the same way as I always have. And notice how me and Cloud have always had the upper hand here on this article. We’ve used the stats, being objective (seeing as neither of us are Brazilian or Barca haters) all the way. I’ve not lost any faith at all. It’s almost like my faith in God, I guess. . .

    Messi has the chance to pass Pele as the all-time greatest. But he’s not there yet.

  • Brad

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    Wow, didn’t notice I’d put that much.

    Another thing I’ve just noticed: “mancity would have beaten Arsenal 11-0 last season”.

    that’s a “what if?” scenario. So many people have done that here before, Mamu. No point in going into such a thing.

  • ysd

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    Well this one is for brad and cloud when you say pele scored 1200 odd goals you talk insane then you say pele is better than messi because he won 3 world cups.
    First of all the discussion was that who is the better player skillwise,technically nd staminawise nd pele alone didnt won 3wc it was brazil who won wc nd you compare international succes with individual brilliance,how stupid ?
    Messi is the best ever at 25 on individual skills, ball control,playmaker,scoring goals.
    Barca are barca because of messi,
    last year they went to ucl semis nd contested for la liga because of the amount of goals he scored,but ronaldo had benzema nd higuain alongside him.
    So the conclusion is he is the best ever player to have played the game.

  • Brad

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    The discussion is about whether or not Pele has the edge over Messi. That’s everything from goals, silverware, and skills.

    Skill-wise, dead even.

    Silverware, I have no doubt Messi wins at club level. But Pele’s pedigree for Brazil when he was 26 is far superior to Messi’s.

    Pele has 3 World Championship medals, he helped Brazil win 3 WCs, and therefore that is something no other player has ever done before for any country. Messi can only really hope to win 2, unless he were to play in 2022 as well and win that to boot. Were he to do that, (winning 3 in a row) than I’ll say Messi is the greatest all time, because then he would be! But he hasn’t even reached Pele yet, let alone pass him, so Pele is still the best ever!

    You’re putting up the same arguments as so many before you. I’ve already won against them. (yes, I know I sound big-headed, but I’m basing my arguments on fact, as well as my own opinions) Save yourself and don’t even answer back.

  • washed

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    pele never play against quality like manu rio, vidic & chaelsea john, luiz & pepe , pique, silva, nesta maldini etc. iam very much confused whether he crossed the limit of 83 goals

  • Mark

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    Winning or not winning cups doesnt make u the best player.
    Best was amazing but played for Ireland so was never going to win something.
    Pele keeps going on about his World Cup medals when talking about who uis the best player. He one them by being part of a team, its not a individual honour!
    Oh his 1200 goals, most of them in a poor league. Not in Spain, Italy, England or Germany.
    I think you can only compare players who play in the same decade and the same position. Anything else is pointless!

  • Marius

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    Who is the best player in the world ever? Messi apparently.

    Who was the most fouled player in the last CL? Ribery, there’s some food for thought.

    Pele unlike Messi faced some pretty ruthless defenders and i’m pretty sure the president of uefa at the time never came forward praising referees for defending Pele.

  • Brad

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    He helped his team win 3 WCs, he was the crown jewel and most important player on a squad with many superstars, much like Messi today. Only Messi hasn’t won a single WC.

    Contrary to your not so original opinion, winning trophies does make you the best. Particularly for country. That’s where it matters the most, after all. You can break records all you want, but if those record breaking performances don’t bring much- if any- silverware, then it’s pointless.

    As for poor league, the only poor thing about Brazil’s Serie A is the defensive steel (well, they are Brazilian), or should I say, the lack of it. But then again, La Liga isn’t known for defense that much, either. Otherwise, Madrid and Barca wouldn’t be winning so many matches by blowouts.

    I’m fairly sure that Pele would have moved to play for a European team- he definitely attracted interest from Manchester United, and maybe even Barca and Madrid- but he was held back by his own government. They labeled him a “national treasure”, which made it impossible for him to sign for a foreign team as long as he played for the Brazilian national team. Another thing: surely, if a league is a poor one, then no player, defender, midfielder, striker, or keeper, that plays in it would be anything less than poor. And Pele was the dead opposite.

    Answer me this, has any other player been named “national treasure”? I think not, maybe we should google it. I do know for a fact Messi isn’t.

    Nothing new with what you said, to be honest. Sorry for sounding arrogant, but these things have been covered already.

    Also, @ washed, Pele scored 77 goals for country. Of course he scored far more than 83 goals in his lifetime, and in definite competitive matches to boot.

  • Toba

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    Most goal scored by pele was an offside goal while messi scored great goals.

  • Brad

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    Where’s proof. You’re yet another one who doesn’t use any facts, I’m wondering why I even reply to you.

  • cloud

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    .. wow messi the best player in the world scored 100 goals in their qualifying against peru – NOT !!!

  • Oybek

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    “We’ve used the stats, being objective (seeing as neither of us are Brazilian or Barca haters) all the way.”

    Why do I find it so hard to believe that Cloud and Brad are not Barca haters?

    Barely does any popular article go on this site without you guys siding with ant-barca position. One of you support MU while the other RM, both of the clubs Barca have always challenged to say the least. Apart from this, you guys were always the first to support any team like Chelsea in case of some controversy or anything this sort. You both can’t stand the fact that Messi is the greatest player of his generation, one promoting Pele, who has not touched a ball since Messi was born, the other trying to death to say that ” Cr7 is superior”.

    Should we redefine the term “objectivity” so your comment above makes sense?

  • Oybek

    0 0

    Cloud,

    Congratulations! Your patience paid off. You had waited so long to be able to comment that ” finally, Messi left the pitch without a goal this season”. But guess what! Messi may not have scored a goal during their clash against Peru but he was the best player of the match nonetheless according to goal.com!

  • cloud

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    Peru ??!! against peru ??!! Is that how the named best player in the planet should play ?? Best player of the game and yet they only had a draw. Again, no xavi no inies – messi is crap.

  • Brad

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    Oybek, I don’t mean to sound anti-barca, I REALLY don’t!!!!!! It’s just that I don’t like how arrogant some of their fans are. Yeah, you get arrogant United and Madrid fans, but it happens my views normally come into conflict with the Barca fans’ views (but not the teams style of play, definitely not). While I may be subjective at times (let’s be honest, the true subjective side to me is a whole lot worse than what you may think) I typically use facts to support my claims, which is objective. Apart from you, and a few others, the majority (read, most, not all) of the Barca fans just insult Pele and don’t use facts. When they do, they belittle Pele’s stats. It may be the leagues he played in aren’t very good, but then again, Barca doesn’t have a whole lot of opposition in La Liga. La Liga isn’t as defensively rough and tough as the EPL’s (Puyol being a huge exception), something similar to Brazi’s Serie A.

    They also say crap about how Pele played when there was “no offside”. Anyone who calls themselves a football fan should know the offside rule was made in the 1860s, roughly around the time when the Laws of the Game were written down. This does imply, at least to me, that they say Pele’s some old confused man who’s off his meds. Again, that’s insulting, which is purely subjective, not to mention a tad immature.

    I don’t say Messi is crap. . . at least i don’t remember doing so. but I have stated that his performances aren’t as impressive for Argentina, which is where his downfall is. While I do rank Messi is my own personal All-time top 5, he’s not #1 or #2. That’s Pele (#1) and Ronaldo (original, #2, and it happens he played for Barca and Madrid, not just one or the other.)
    Even then, Pele’s miles ahead of the others, while R9’s win for 2nd place was a scrap with Maradona and Zidane. Notice I don’t have any United players in this.

  • Pure24

    0 0

    Hold on… Oybek. Do you know that CR7 and R9 are the ONLY players to have ever scored against every team in a single La Liga season? That means that Messi definitely left the pitch without scoring (for example, El Classico).
    Didn’t mean to talk about that… about the issue at hand then. Exactly HOW is Messi better than Pele? What part of Messi would we remember when he retires, and say he was better than Pele? Which achievements would we highlight and say his performances by far outshone Pele?
    Yes, Brad and Cloud etc… are using facts to their advantage. But that doesn’t make them any less of facts. A THOUSAND OFFSIDE GOALS?! Come on guys… ONE THOUSAND GOALS!!!

  • Brad

    0 0

    I know right. crazy, the way so many people here try to belittle Pele. And they wonder why we use facts, which point out that Pele is in fact better, still. It may be that Messi gets belittled in the process of using facts, but then again, stats will belittle anyone and everyone who doesn’t measure up to the one who has the greatest pedigree.

  • Roy Smith

    0 0

    My god, this argument is still going on?

  • Pure24

    0 0

    Whats your point?

  • cloud

    0 0

    .. i wonder where is messi during that argentina-peru game.

    messi – the 70-goal machine, the only player to have scored 5 goals in a UCL game. But wait, all these are from barcelona. hahaha

    .. i couldn’t even name one good player from peru, but how come argentina only scored 1 goal ?? Where is the goal-scoring prowess of messi ?? Where is the man that won three straight world player award ??

    .. oybek, do you know why I value the World Cup too much ?? It’s the tournament where a good player becomes great and becomes a god. it’s only played for 31 days and on that 31 days, a player must be on top of his game at all times. Each game in the world cup is damn important. Losing one game in the group matches will automatically put your team in jeopardy in going to the next round. One hiccup and you’re dead. The league on the other hand is played for a damn long 38 weeks, you can always take back lost points as the week progresses.

    .. and if you compare that to Pele, he was only 18 when he demolished the world cup in 1958, scored a hat trick in the semis and had two in the finals. again, 18 YEARS OLD. He was an absolute nobody back then. 18 YEARS OLD.

    .. but for messi, 24 years old now, yeah, all his records are from Barca. But for his country ?? With their latest outing in Peru ??? You would expect a player of his caliber to sweep lowly Peru, but that didn’t happen. That’s why Messi will only be Dependent with Barca and that’s why he would never surpass Pele.

  • cloud

    0 0

    .. all the god players are remembered because of their World Cup Success.

    – Maradona – hand of god
    – zidane – 2 goals against brazil
    – Ronaldo – 9 goals
    – Matthaus and Klinnsman – 1990 germany

    .. let’s just take maradona coz he’s from argentina, can we remember a game of him on Club level ?? If we mention the name Maradona, we would always say – HA !! THE HAND OF GOD.

    .. i’m not saying that Messi is an absolute crap of a player, it’s only that’s he’s over rated.

  • san

    0 0

    both are greatest player of their generation….
    we cannot compare one sweet flower with other..
    as both deserve…praises..
    i have seen pele game…and..messi also…
    both are like player of another planet..so stop this discussion because….flowers are same …

  • Dapsony

    0 0

    Stat such as WC win make no count wt me when choosing d best player and it wl never do for any resonablly and objective person. We must knw dt no player can take credit 4 any cup won in d game of football as such belongs 2 d team. So it’s a team work 4 every game won an every cup won, no individual player, no matter hw good, hw creative, can tell me he won 3WC. If there’s such person, let him swear dt he did all d playin alone. I’m quite certain dt d only creteria 4 comparism among player are stuffs lik individual quality, ball control, dribbling,strenth and tricks dt resulted in goals.etc

  • Pure24

    0 0

    San makes a load of sense.
    I will not belittle Messi in any way, and its true that its rather unfair to say Pele, who is now retired and played in a league four decades and a continent away, is greater or not as great as the current top of the cream. However, since the topic is at hand and if you’ve got to give an answer… Mostly, its all down to personal favorite (or least hated), but you’ve got to judge all round success – at CLUB and international level. And Pele smashes Messi’s bar at BOTH club and country! What else can we use to judge the better of two players bridged by decades than by than achievement? Skill? Surely that will depend on a person’s perspective of skill…

  • Brad

    0 0

    Dapsony, skill level isn’t the only thing someone needs to be the best. All that talent, skill, flair, and potential are wasted if you don’t help your team win, both at club AND international level.

    Messi has done it at club level. But not at international level. That is where he falls short.

    Meanwhile, Pele did it at BOTH club AND international level. That is where he stays head and shoulders- and maybe even close to the elbows- above Messi and company (not a joke on Messi being short, not at all; just an expression).

  • Nwanza Oscar

    0 0

    No comparison at all but Messi has to defend himself out of Barcelona especially in his national team, he needs to prove to the world that he does not need the special player assistance such as: Iniesta, Xavi… to score, his record with the national team is poor not very poor but poor i hope he needs to do something then no body can talk…

  • cloud

    0 0

    .. i’m actually hoping that Messi will win something for his country, but till that day comes, let’s not rate Messi so highly that he’s the best of all time.

  • Brad

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    It always is a shame to see such talented players fail to win silverware, regardless of their nationality and who they play for, or even what kind of attitude they have (like Balotelli).

    the problem is, if Messi wins so much as a Copa America, forget the Confederations Cup and World Cup, many Messi fans are just gonna brag about it and say stuff like “that beats all 3 of Pele’s World Cups.” Yeah, right, 1 CA to 3 WCs. Ridiculous.

  • Lalhaokip

    0 0

    Messi is the best……..!!!!!!!!!

  • Brad

    0 0

    how about some facts to prove it?

  • ebenezer

    0 0

    messi always messi even marodona have declare dat messi all de best no messi no argentine no messi no barca

  • Donchymax

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    Pele always make me believe that He is a fool by his cliams after all he was not the most important player in the brazilian team that won 3 world cup he played in never is he mentioned in those world cups as a top scorrer and no golden boot winner in any of them if he was so important to the team he should have been the captain of the team which shows how minor he is to the team

  • pure24

    0 0

    At ebenezer, no messi no argentine no barca? Seriously? Was this club and Argentina made for Messi… has barca never been great? and Argentina had seen far greater success b4 Messi arrived.
    Its rily shallow to think that only a top goal scorer or captain contributes to a TEAM’s success Donchymax – then again, you think Messi is THE GREATEST EVER…

  • jack

    0 0

    pele isnot see true for leo messi . messi is bad phantom for pele .

  • Luemer Nnah

    0 0

    their is no equality between Pele n Messi, the margin is too much. Change barca formation and see if Messi can play again. Wat about his national mess.

  • night onman

    0 0

    Lionel Messi (lion no mercy)has surpassed all he is the best footballer of all times.He is a threat to Pele”s records.He is setting a bigger unbreakable all time record.

  • Brad

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    Donchymax, he’s scored 12 goals in 13 WC matches, along with the Golden Ball (for best PLAYER, not necessarily goalscorer) in 1970, and was always the crown jewel on a superstar laden team, much like how Messi is for Barca today. However,Messi has 1 goal in about 8 games. Not impressive. In fact, he didn’t get a single goal in South Africa.

  • pure24

    0 0

    At night onman exactly HOW has Messi surpassed all?

  • Ahmed

    0 0

    Messi is a very good player bt I will accept he’s genius if messi change club nd still perform like CR7,CR7 from Man U to Madrid still counting

  • Tshepo Moagi

    0 0

    why changing the club? thats rediculous….messi is good! its the club that makes him to be the best! it doesn’t need you to change a club to be the best!

  • Abe

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    The problem is that Pele is jealous of Messi. There are no comparisons about both of them. We watched Pele in old fashion TV and we watched Messi in HD/3D. Pele should have understood that Messi is going to break his record soon. Just be patient old style! Bye bye!

  • Shady

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    Pele brags too much and it is very immature of him to do that.
    The time of Pele & the time of Messi are totally different. Soccer is harder now, it’s way harder than before and Pele is comparing himself to Messi who is just about 25 and yet breaks records every season.
    Pele played in that weak Brazilian league and other weak American clubs while Messi plays in Europe which is very difficult. As far as I’m concerened, Neymar had better learn from Messi than Pele if he wants to cope with the soccer of this generation

  • Bah

    0 0

    Pele is jealous of everyone.. silly old man.

  • Brad

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    How can you be jealous of someone, when you’re still better than them? Particularly for your country, at the World Cup, where it matters most? Granted, Messi’s career isn’t over, he still has a chance to overtake Pele. But he is not there yet. So you can’t say Messi is already better than Pele, because you have no facts to prove your claim, and that’s because Messi doesn’t have the national team resume that Pele does.

    End of.

  • Dread

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    pele, u were lucky to have better players like Jarzinho around u. Brazil won the world cup not pele. only Maradona won the world cup single handedly with some average Argentinians around him. remember. came the end of his playing career no world cup. Brazil have won with & without u. u were just another speedstar with a bit of skill.

  • Brad

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    HA! You actually made me laugh at that, Dread. Yet another stupid comment. Argentina won the WC before Maradona played in one, for starters.

    Another thing, Messi is lucky to have teammates like Xavi around him, Dread. Jairzinho wasn’t better than Pele, and Messi isn’t better than Pele either. Just as Brazil wouldn’t have won the World Cup without the combination of Pele with Garrincha, Jairzinho, and Didi, the same is for Barca: if they didn’t have the combination of Messi, Xavi, and Iniesta, than their pedigree wouldn’t be as great.

    You’ll never win this, none of you. All you can do is insult Pele and downgrade the achievements he has that Messi hasn’t. You sound like 10 year olds. Open your eyes, and you shall see that, as great as Messi is, PELE is still the greatest footballer to ever play the game.

  • Brad

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    Of course, Shady will attack the club level that Pele played in. Remember, that actually isn’t Pele’s fault. His own government declared him a national treasure and banned him from transferring to a foreign team until after he retired from national duty. If it weren’t so, Pele would have played for the likes of Manchester United, Real Madrid, or Barca.

    Another thing, soccer is harder because, in part, of Pele. Great players come along and help change the game. Seeing as Pele is the best ever, of course he would help change the game and make it harder.

  • cloud

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    .. brad, some people are just short-sighted, they only think the NOW and not the whole achievement of a player.

    .. as you’ve said, PELE IS A NATIONAL TREASURE IN BRAZIL. That is very big recognition, not even Micheal Jordan nor Schumi nor any other athlete has became a national treasure. People just can’t recognized to how big that sh*t is.

    .. a maradona vs pele would be better coz they both are gods. But a messi vs pele ?? Waste of time, it’s like a fly versus an elephant.

  • Brad

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    I don’t know about fly, that seems too harsh. But you’re right, they’re too short sighted.

  • Socrates

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    Messi will make his own history I have no doubt about that. Whether he will sit at the throne wth Pele and Maradona is very doubtful as he is not good enough. It’s that simple. People are very short sighted when it comes to football skills, as if there were no skillful players until Messi or Ronaldo arrived. Utter bollocks. I hate to break some of your delusion here but there has always been great technically gifted players, in fact better than today’s players. If anyone is doubting this claim try playing on muddy uneven pitches, wearing hard leather boots and cotton shirts that soak up not just sweat but rain water? Try kicking or heading a hard leather football whilst at the same time avoiding tackles that can be seen as assault in today’s rules? The number one defense for Messi and players today is that they are fitter, stronger and faster with all the technology etc. Whilst I agree with that don’t you think if Pele and Maradona was playing today they will also have the benefit of the technology etc?

  • anthony

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    Pele needs to stop talking and be a man. How can you guys say that messi can not lay without barca formation. His country does not play same formation as barca. Messi does different job for the national team more like play maker for the national team. If someone is good people need to stop hating cause I no if messi plays for United or Madrid, It will be different case. So everyone that don’t like messi. Fuck Pele i used to respect him but he needs to understand that messi is very young when he broke most records. Every time messi plays, he brakes record Pele is scared that once his record is about to be broken if not now Messi will do it soon.

  • Brad

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    Thank you, Socrates. I admit, I never thought of that side of the game.

    Anthony, give us something besides excuses about Argentina being different from Barca. If Messi were truly the greatest ever, that would be absolutely no problem.

  • Ofudje fergusson

    0 0

    Pele is a fool, his just bein jealous of d great lion. All is record will b broken ssooooooon. Let him just sit and watch has his record his been broken.haaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaa,stupid old fool.

  • Brad

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    You think he’s stupid? with that comment, I must say, I’m surprised you even think at all. Forgive me, but I’m being frank about it.

  • Segsee

    0 0

    Pele stil d best player ever but messi is anoda best player ever so why argue

  • Ofudje fergusson

    0 0

    If he think he his not y must he b comparin himself with young messi who dnt even care?

  • Vicran

    0 0

    We need to end this now.Its high time we stoppedWe need to end this now.Its high time we stopped belabouring this topic before we sound like broken records and boring.Why not pay attention to an urgent&crucial issue of global import like the better between Obama&Romney,irrespective of the result tmoro?Don’t say its not a sports issue.Few fans follow issues bothering on their idols with objectivity.Not with the viewers on this site.Its been almost a year!One who called himself Fence or fencer wasted time heaping an amount of insults i’ve never read nor seen,on Pele.Now people know that Pele was better with his legs than his mouth.Infact i find it shockingly-condescending that he is making comparisons between himself and messi-not even maradonna!Fifa,officials and coaches the world over who watched Pele, voted him the greatest ever.The younger generation who saw maradonna voted him the best.Now the new argument is on messi.If you want to be truly objective,you need to watch the clips of the three players.I have watched it.Time magazine in their ‘greatest people of the last century’ edition recognized Pele as the greatest ever soccer player.Now your view might be better than the submission of Fifa,officials and Time magazine,but if we dont accept the facts and figures,should we rather take personal opinions?Brad&co have worked this hard this long because they have the time,resource and patience to keep correcting these poor views that keep getting recycled.A man with information will never be defeated by one with mere argument.It is an information that Pele never won a Copa America because during his era,the south american soccer governing body had problems and the tourney was not held over a long time.No amount of argument can truly change this fact.In the same way,no argument will tilt the facts in messi’s favour.Make research or watch the clips.But why wont people leave Pele with his weakness and let messi concentrate so he can keep giving his best,then we judge when he finishes?If Pele was playing a distracting game,messi’s fans are falling for it and helping to pull their idol down.But some will not listen after this text.Brad&co,time for the next issue.Peharphs mine is not bad.You’ve done justice to this one.

  • Brad

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    Thank you, Vicran, I love how you played that out, very, very much.

  • pinson

    0 0

    if you say MESSI and CR7 are the best football ever had,why not check the likes of PELE,MARADONA,CRYUFF,ZIDANE,DE LIMA RONALDO,RIVALDO,NEDVED,RIVALDO,PLATINI and you’ll be amazed.Football nowadays is guided by too much rules unlike in those days when we ve defendes likes STAM,SAMPAIO,ALBERTINI,REDONDO and the likes.

    Now we ve last man rules,no celebration with fans,no kicking behind and the likes,

    Come to think of it,do you think MESSI and CR7 can survive the italian league of 1995 – 2000

    Be frank about it.

  • Socrates

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    A very good point pinson. Whether he could have withstood the kind of battering and kicking Pele and Maradona endured throughout their playing career remains to be seen. One famous quote from Platini when Maradona scored perhaps the greatest goal in a competition against England in the 1986 World Cup Quarter Finals: “If he had made that run in Italy he would have ended up in hospital” He was off course referring to the sometimes cynical tactics that was often used at that time in Italian football. Off course I’m not advocating deliberately taking a player out but instead expose a skill that is missing in both football players and managers today. I am off course referring to tactics or to be more specific: tactical innovation. Much of Messi’s current success in my opinion is down to Guardiolas foresight in allowing him a freer role than he had under Frank Rijkaard. He’s goal scoring rate and number of assists are testimony to that, as they are off the chart at the moment. Off course playing someone in a free role isn’t new but what is quite noticeable in the modern game is the absent of any tactical response from opposition managers to Messi and Barcelona’s tactics. In the past managers would respond to players in a free role by implementing a man marker or change the formation and tactics to respond or try to outwit the opposition team. This kind of tit-for-tat play resulted in some innovative football created like the 1970’s Dutch team or the Ajax team of the 1990’s or the German sweeper system. Nowadays managers all over put out the same 4-3-3 formation, their only response to the opposition and their only tactical reaction is sometimes going from a 4-3-3 to a 4-5-1 or 4-4-2. You’ll be hard pushed to come across another manager who is willing to put out a different formation. Which is why it is so refreshing, when you do come across someone who does. With the exception of Jose Mourinho, Marcelo Bielsa (currently manages Athletic Bilbao) is a manager that really excites me at the moment. The 3-3-1-3 formation he put out in the World Cup was so refreshing to see. I don’t know why that is, whether it is due to the rule changes or maybe there is more pressure in the game or perhaps managers today are not as knowledgeable in football tactics as they once were. Whatever the reason the lack of any tactical reaction has allowed Messi to drift in-between players unchallenged and coupled with his exceptional technical ability (close ball control, dribbling skills, vision and intelligence) and good players around him like Xavi, Fabrigas and Iniesta who can find him, a player like that can do a lot of damage and he does. God knows what else or how much more Maradona and Pele could have achieved without the attention of a man marker. Not that – they haven’t achieved anything off course- which speaks volumes of the their abilities.

  • Baraka msombai ssack

    0 0

    Indeed MESSI will broke all recods,coz records was kept 2 be broken.pele is jealous with MESSI’s superble.

  • Vicran

    0 0

    Baraka,if u want to post something that might offend people,try at least to do it in readable english

  • Brad

    0 0

    Exactly, Vicran. I’m gonna go ahead and tell you these people who are Messi fans don’t really give much of a fight except to belittle and insult Pele and the achievements he has, such as 3 World Cup medals.

  • Amaka

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    @ Ahmed,why are u guys always sooooo concerned about messi leaving barca to other clubs,did other clubs do what barca did for him? Barca picked him up when he was nobody and now God has blessed him all of u want him to leave,leave to where?

  • Oybek

    0 0

    Mr.Pele, your nightmare is Messi and that’s why you keep belittling him all the time. Just be around, you gonna “talk” to Messi soon, sooner than you expect! One of your records is all “gone”, for instance.

  • Brad

    0 0

    Yeah, you would talk since you always belittle Pele! But, while Messi is the best footballer in the world right now, Pele is still the best ever, and you can’t deny it at all.

  • Ss Estawul

    0 0

    If the FIFA president and other footballers legent are not jealous, Messi deserves the best!

  • A-z

    0 0

    as for me,I think pele is on jealous of ds super dude,he should leave d boy alone and let him concentrate ,ao many countries were playing world cup during his era?pele is a big fool,messi is just 25 and he has had all ds achievements,and he’s still not stoping,cos I c a brighter future ahead of him….so mr pele or wateva u call urself,go to hell

  • Brad

    0 0

    You call him a fool, and prove to be a fool yourself with that comment. Once again, no facts, nothing to support what you say. Seriously wonder why I’m bothering to reply.

  • PT

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    Although Pele can be boistrous at times he is absolutely correct. He is the man! No other player whether you like him or not is the yardstick everyone is measured. It is simply like this Michael Jordan, Ali,Senna,Sampras, Payton, Aaron and Woods only come around once in a lifetime. As for it was easier playing futbol back in the day…Have you seen the highlights of players trying to break the legs of Pele when he got the ball. If measured by todays rules they would have faced lenghty bans and criminal prosecution.

  • me

    0 0

    If messi should win the ballon do’r for the fourth time in a row, then pele need to go back to play football so as to claim that record before he can be better than messi.

  • PHILIP DOMINGO

    0 0

    MESSI IS SIMPLY THE BEST, SO PELE SHOULD KEEP QUIET.

  • Cortez

    0 0

    Lionel Messi is the Greatest Footballer Ever! Prove that Messi Better than Pele.. Pele record scorer in a calendar 75 Goal, Messi 84 ( 5 Match left ), Gerd Muller 85, will be surpass by Messi in 5 Match game left!!! Messi have 3 Ballon d’or, like M.Plattini,Johan Cruff! All Legend footballer Messi have Beaten!! at 25 years only! Soon Messi will broken all record.. n Get More Ballon d’or!!!

  • Cortez

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    Pele won 3 WC? 1282 gol? only this? sory Brazil won the cup not pele itself.. dont get the name won WC by your name only.. your individual record only 1282 gol.. so keep watching..messi still young, 25 years, there have 10 year ++ above left.. Messi already broke your record 75 gol in one year calender by 84 gols.. to Compare Individual who greater, so compare individual accivement not country achivement..

  • snake

    0 0

    pele is the greatest of all time but messi can also match peles record in time to come or might not

  • Big Benzo

    0 0

    Gùys let b sensible ,if messi claims he is d best let him save argentina from their strategies, immaging world cup, d whole best player cannot even score a single goal.Atleast Ronaldo took his team to semi final,okocha help teams like boltön,sunderland,stock city to premier wat achievement has messi done to his country.all am saying is messi cannot do without xavi and iniesta.

  • Brad

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    Cortez, records are made to be broken. but it is proof that the 3 WC’s that Pele helped Brazil win, that is a single player achievement that won’t be beat by Messi. Unless Argentina were to win the next 3 WCs, that is. but we all know just how hard it is to win one, let alone 2, in a row. And Messi’s already played in 2 WCs. Not a whole lot of people have played in 5, and even the greats normally don’t themselves.

    He can win all the Ballon d’Ors he wants, until he gets his hands on that World Cup 3 times in his career, Messi can never hope to kick Pele off his throne as the greatest footballer ever.

    Go home Cortez. You’ve lost like all the other Messi fans.

  • Ajn

    0 0

    Stop speaking nonsense

  • joko

    0 0

    hellooooo …..where have you been Mr “P”ele…?!…your’e statement toooooo arrogant,i dont like u because your mouth…in the past time at youre era its defferen ,i think for this time is more player got more technic,skill than youre era Mr “P”ele…so i think if you play at this moment,…..youre nothing

  • Brad

    0 0

    Ajn, I agree with your comment. . .. when it comes to you, joko, and other messi fans, that is.

  • Thierry

    0 0

    He is arrogant coz he got the record and a legend…same like Bolt…break it and they will be humble…simple as that…

  • Brad

    0 0

    you think he’s arrogant? listen to yourself and the other messi fans. and that’s without reason, too.

  • Vicran

    0 0

    I suspected that these messi fans won’t let this matter lie.The worst is that their written English is as poor as their logic.What a shame.

  • Vitalis marekera

    0 0

    Agree to pele tell them…. Not just conservative

  • Doni

    0 0

    He is too arrogant. He can win World Cup 3 times because of his awesome teammates. And for the 1962 WC, he only played 1 match. How can he claim he won 3 WC? As for his goals. He scored them mostly against Brazil clubs that didn’t care about defense. If he compares his goals to Messi’s, I think it’s irrelevant.

  • Gloria

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    Pele is better than messi. Messi is better than pele. He won 3 worldcups. He won 3 ballon d’ors. So freaking what? Stop it already. Pele was the best off his time. Maradona was best of his time. Now we are blessed to be in the era of messi. It shows how great messi is for someone like pele to compare himself to messi, saying he has an edge over him(wow). The only thing is for everyone to be patient and do what pep advised. “Dont talk about messi just watch him play”. When he retires from soccer then we will have all the stats and facts to clearly say who is the best of all time. On the part of objectivity. I have a no of favourite players like maradona, zidane, R9, pirlo, iniesta and xavi. But messi is a magician on the field. Its no contest. He is my best.

  • Brad

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    Doni, don’t be stupid. Pele got injured in 1962. While you got one fact right, which is a surprise, you didn’t bother to realize that he got hurt and was unable to play for the rest of the tournament. Look at the bigger picture. For instance, a few years ago FIFA awarded all players who were on the squad of their country when they won the World Cup a medal. So now the official, and true, statistics show that Pele is the one and only player to have helped his nation win the World Cup 3 times.

    It’s ridiculous to shrug off the goal stats that Pele has, too. Regardless of the league, it is no mean feat to score over 1,000 goals in a professional career. Considering the fact that the Spanish La Liga isn’t particularly known for its defense, with the exception of Barcalona and Real Madrid (who also combine that with the one-two combination of team chemistry and pure world class talents), your attack on Pele’s stats is nullified instantly. And considering that attack isn’t even new, it’s truly a wonder that you even bothered to continue harping along that line, especially if you’ve seen how it’s been so lazily cast aside.

    Gloria, I like how you put that. The problem is, many people seem to think that Messi is the undisputed best footballer of all time. He hasn’t even finished his career though. He hasn’t even helped Argentina reach the semis of a World Cup, let alone win one. As great as Messi is at club level, he needs to improve on the big stage for his country, as that just happens to be where Pele made his claim to fame.

    Both players have/had fantastic teammates with them on one team: Pele at Brazil, Messi at Barca. The difference is that Pele made a huge mark at both club and international play, without truly great teammates like Garrincha and Jairzinho, whilst Messi has only made his own at club level. This is partly thanks to the fact that he doesn’t have help from Xavi and Iniesta. Even for Barca, if you take one or both of those two playmakers, Messi experiences some drop in form, I’ve noticed.

  • Gus

    0 0

    The 1283 goals scored figure is only half true. Pele netted 707 goals with Santos and the Cosmos in 763 games. Now to say that as a scoring record that’s not amazing would be lunacy but to score 1283 goals in a 21 year career at the rate he scored his 707 goals would mean that he played approximately 66 competitive games a season on a club level for 21 years straight. Not possible. As far as representing his country statistically Pele is superior although he was supported by a better team. Which can also be said of Messi with Barcelona. Point is, the goalscoring stats for Pele are generally inflated and until Messi finishes his career we won’t be able to know who was statistically better. We never really can decide who was the better of the two because they played in different eras.

  • Vicran

    0 0

    Gus is a messi fan that didn’t sound as one.He also wrote good english.But the logic is strange.Are you saying that verifiable,official documented records for pele are false and messi’s are true?You then turned and said the objective thing-lets allow messi to finish.Then he might stand a chance to catch or overtake him.Lets rest the case for now and let him finish!Would you?I doubt if the messi fanatics would.

  • ilyas

    0 0

    Pele and Messi are two different world class players that made their marks (messi is still making) in two different eras. Let’s just appreciate their contributions and talents and forget who is better of the two. To me, King Pele, considering his status and age needn’t have to raise the dust in the first place…what do you think?

  • Brad

    0 0

    Vicran, it is a tad unusual. However, in competitive matches, the stats Gus brought out are indeed true. What it is is that, some time back, I believe before Maradona’s time and certainly Messi’s, FIFA put the 1,283 goals down as official stats. So, really, we’ve got to go with that.

    Gus, very well said. And Ilyas, I agree that we have to let this rest, but the thing is, there are Messi fans who won’t let the topic rest. It does seem to be the right thing to do to repudiate them. No matter how many times.

  • Niranj

    0 0

    Messi got all the things that Pele got in his carrer now itself , and messi have a long time still in front of him . Which means messi can become powerfull like a double pele ..

  • Mfon samson

    0 0

    King Pele should not always involve himself in Messi matter.For now,it is an insult to compare Messi to Pele,who have won three world Cup with Brazil.Messi is great in Spain though not a Spainiard,while Pele is King.

  • Brad

    0 0

    Cool story, Niranj, needs more dragons and stuff. . .

    Niranj, last time I checked, Messi has yet to help Argentina win a single World Cup. Meanwhile, Pele helped Brazil win 3.

    Do your homework.

  • kaleelcbk

    0 0

    pele 10 times better than messi nevr judge king of football pele’

  • kaleelcbk

    0 0

    messi is only barca star not another legendary football star great footballers fuck messi u are better than neymar then compare Legendary football kings ok…..

  • route 8 saint

    0 0

    pele is a joke, he ruined his rep years ago. everytime he speaks he should be stripped of one title. hes loco bro

  • route 8 saint

    0 0

    pele is the biggest joke.

  • benji

    0 0

    PELE MUST THINK MESSI IS THE BEST BECAUSE HE NEVER STOPS TALKING ABOUT HIM.YOU NEVER HEAR MESSI TALKING ABOUT PELE, THEN AGAIN WHY SHOULD MESSI HE IS ALOT BETTER ALL ROUND PLAYER THAN PELE AND SCORED AGAINST BETTER QUALITY TEAMS

  • KingEllite

    0 0

    You see pele he kills he could have went to any big club out of brazil but the Brazilian government regarded him as a NATIONAL TREASURE and also the fact meaning he wasn’t allowed to leave brazil and you Route 8 saint you talk too much

  • Al'amin

    0 0

    ha ha ha for thos that are so strict on pele’s beterness why did he say they are on the same level, i am afraid pele is jealous of this generation’s football legend, why ddnt messi respond to this allegation? becouse he has only determinations, is it worldcup the finest glory in football? what about continental champions league lyk uefa champions league and coppa libertodores, how many does pele have?

  • THE TRUTH

    0 0

    I agree with Brad.

  • pure24

    0 0

    Just out of interest: What does a player’s jealousy, insecurity and ego have to do with his achievements? I think Pele is useless, and wants to be worshiped.
    BUT. There is nothing any of you can say that will take away his achievements… I seemed to notice that many of u are better at calculating professional career goals than the associations themselves! Sure, Messi is most definitely winning Ballon d’Or again, but never see today’s talent and make it all time great. Brad’s point holds true – Messi’s career is not done yet!!!
    Lastly, ur arguments are so futile bcoz u use subjective reasons; use facts that will never differ from person to person. I mean, in my opinion, if Messi was in the Premier League where teams play every three days and have to face fatigue, excessive media pressure, really strict Association rules and such-like, he wouldn’t be ANYWHERE near where he is!
    The Brazilian league defense is useless? Let’s look at the La Liga one then, where Barca scored 5+ goals per game… The SAME Barca has not beaten ANY English team by more than two goals in almost a decade!!!
    You see, ur arguments are futile. Why do countries spend Billions ust bidding for a World Cup? Why do they spend trillions preparing. Why are national and international dignitaries involved? Why is it the most watched tournament in the world? Am sure its bcoz its not really important!

  • Bretty

    0 0

    George Best was better than both of them and retired at 27. Even the great Pele said that.

  • peter micheal

    0 0

    stop saying rubbish

  • BencoAnyiam

    0 0

    It’s most stupid to say that Pele is “useless” @pure 24! What makes him “useless”? To preface his submission, Pele acknowledged he’s a fan of Messi. But highlighted the disparity between them, and their similarity. His statement doesn’t sound arrogant or derogatory toward Messi. But as he rightly pointed out, until Messi wins three WCs, and scores 1,283 goals, he’s no where near the great Pele. To help you guys see how that maight be a real task, Messi is now almost 26 years. Pele retired from active footballing at age 34; so the next 8years will see Messi aging 34. Therefore, if in the next 8years, Messi is able to make his goal tally to 1,283, then, there could be real talk about between him and Pele, who’s the greatest of all time. I personally see it as almost impossible for Messi to score 800 goals in the next 8years! You guys commenting here should mind your language and tame your tongues a bit. The man never said anything he isn’t entitled. He got the audacity to his claims, and you shouldn’t rain abuses on him for that. Candidly speaking, I don’t think that Messi would be able to hold his ground on the style of play during Pele’s days, with all those hard tackles without referee protections, nor fair play rules. Consider the eras, and the rules of the game in these eras! being objective will help us here.

  • pure24

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    My bad man @BencoAnyiam… Didn’t mean useless skill-wise, or useless in a literal sense. Also didn’t mean to undermine Pele’s statement in any way; it just comes across as insecure, not that he is. Yeah, tongues need to be tamed and that was a loose one right there.

    Personally, I don’t even know why we are on this subject. Congrats to Messi for yet another Ballon d’Or! And u know what, there’s nobody really shining right now and if the trend continues, we might be looking at a FIFTH consecutive award. But 800 goals?!!! That’s too tall an order. It means that Messi would have to bag 100 goals every season for eight years! Three World Cup trophies? Messi will be lucky if he even gets to play all of the next three World Cup finals. Pitting Ballon d’Or as a reason is bit short-sighted bcoz the award itself is subjective. Its not an ultimate decider on who is the best player!

    What did Messi do that guaranteed him another Ballon d’Or ahead of Ronaldo? Messi supporters will use records to defend him. And yet somehow, records don’t matter when comparing to Pele!!! Come on guys, this shouldn’t even be an issue… Pele beats Messi any day. Come eight years from now and we will talk

  • Brad

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    Okay, here’s the deal. They say the Brazilian Serie A is crap, eh? Well, look where all the good players go: Europe. England. Italy. Germany. France. somewhere else, too, hold on. . . oh, yeah, SPAIN. That’s today. These Messi fans, short memory, very short. They don’t realize, that, in the days of Pele, the Brazilians stayed home. Those that didn’t, went to Europe, and almost completely flopped due to differences in climate, language, football style, and culture. Europe had closer ties between each other, but Brazil still produced the best players, who were often spread out among the teams. That means that Pele was the standout amongst the Sao Paulo players (he did have some teammates in the same league as Carlos Alberto), and to this day has actually been forever linked with many of that club’s honors.

    At Brazil, it was different. He was the standout still, but this time it was amongst a superstar heavy squad, not a whole lot of no-names. This is similar to how Messi is today at Barca. difference is, Messi performs only at club level (though he had fantastic performances for Argentina this just past calender year, but don’t get too cocky). Meanwhile, Pele performed for both club and country, all through his career.

    @BencoAnyiam, I like that bit you put about Messi not being able to stand up to the hits that defenders dished out back then, especially to the best players on the park. And naturally, our opposition would claim that, if Pele played today, he wouldn’t be able to handle the sophisticated defenders of today. Not true. It’s because of players like Pele, George Best, Eusebio, Cruyff, Garrincha, Maradona, Zidane, and many others that defenders are so sophisticated now. I guarantee you, in later years, they will be more so because of Messi, but if it weren’t for Pele (or any others mentioned above), they wouldn’t be as good as they are today.

  • pure24

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    Thats a true one Brad…
    I noticed that particularly Barca fans seem to have a short-term memory loss. Or maybe they are too young to have that long a memory. Not to belittle Barca in any way, but FIVE YEARS of amazing soccer does not make you the greatest team of ALL TIME. Just the same as club performances ONLY do not make you the greatest player of all time. We are talking all-time; goals, medals, awards (not just Ballon d’Or, mind)… Barca has the blessing of having a collection of some of the best players in the world right now – almost totally consisting of Spanish players, who on international level are winning everything they are participating in. Its not surprising that they would make an already amazing player even more awesome (Messi, I mean). But if this record-breaking, award-winning prodigy can prove that its not about the teammates (that is, win a World Cup, or make some sense of his international career), then who am I to say he’s anything but better than Pele? If not… The facts speak for themselves

  • oybek

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    Mr Pele,

    I don’t know what makes you say that you are unmatched but if you really want this current generation of football fans to get your message – your being all time great- your numbers 1283 goals and 3 would cups don’t do much of the help. Why not raise/spend some cash to advertise some of your performance on mass media to remind the youth of your all-time superiority?

    Honestly, I don’t know much about Pele. Only recently did I find out that Pele recorded a tally of max 75 goals a year. If that’s the case, how is it possible that he has 1283 goals? How long did his career last?

  • barca boy

    0 0

    barca beat arsenal 4-1 ,, and beat man.utd 3-1. and yet you say that barca has not scored any English team more than two goals… Pele is GREAT, Messi is GREAT and both of them can be used in the same sentence by anyone if Pele himself can use the two names.. Don’t be sad for sincere success of two GREAT men… have a nice day

  • Jayanta Ray

    0 0

    @ of All…….Just not compare like a stupid between Pele& Messi. Messi is world class in Club Football but Pele is world class in both club& international football.

  • Brad

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    Oybek, Pele’s career started when he was 15, not long before he set the world on fire at Sweden 58. He didn’t end his career completely until somewhere around 1977. Plenty of time to get an incredible tally. Messi’s already well on his way to doing the same for his entire career.

    And I’m not sure if Pele needs to raise money to advertise himself. There’s Youtube, and plenty of books that have facts about Pele. The advertising is being done for him. It’s just that so much of the fans today are so absorbed in what’s going on now, they don’t bother to learn the history of the game, which is probably something they should do.

  • Brad

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    A thought that just occurred to me.

    These days, there are so many different competitions at club level to play in, particularly in Europe. There’s the domestic league, one or two domestic cups, a one-off domestic super-cup game, Champions League, Europa, the one-off European Super Cup game, and the Club World Cup.

    It’s very similar in South America, though Brazil’s domestic league is very confusing given that it’s based on who’s in what region, then the national tournament, and only after winning that can you go to Copa Libertadores.

    Back in Pele’s day, it was so different. Back then, everyone cared about just the league, and the World Cup. The Champions Leagues of the separate world regions were still in their infancy (as was UEFA itself, and therefore the Euros). So was the CWC. Not only were they young, not everyone deemed them as important as they do today, unless you were Real Madrid.

    It’s because of all the competitions at club level that players have even more time to get used to teammates. And it’s teams like Barca, who already have so much chemistry to begin with by growing up with each other, who end up building even more chemistry by playing so many games with each other. Not only that, most of the Barca starters are Spain starters, so more chem goes in. I think that’s got something to do with Messi not doing as good for Argentina.

  • pure24

    0 0

    I said winning by more than two goals, nt scoring mo than two goals!!! Except Arsenal…

  • d11

    0 0

    pele you jealous you stil want 2 b the best. If messi was from brazil then you would say he is the best

  • Vicran

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    Who is this D11?Lets see where these Messi sentiments would lead and when it will stop.The voters can keep giving Messi the ballon d’or,it will never make him the greatest because the facts will continue to speak.The blame should go to Pele who condescended so much as to make such a comparison.I wish he reads these so that he could see the insults Messi fanatics have continued to give him.I sympathise with neutral and objective readers who sense of judgement are continually being assaulted.

  • barkafan

    0 0

    PLS WHERE CAN I GET THE ARCHIVE OF PELE’S GOAL AS I DON’T UNDERSTAND WHY HE KEEPS TALKING ABOTU MESSI IF HE HIMSELF IS NOT AFRAID OF MESSI BREAKING HIS RECORD,AFTER BREAKING HIS GOAL HAUL IN A YEAR PELE NOW BELIEVES THEY ARE ON THESAME LEVEL,DOES THIS MEAN NEYMAR IS AT A HIGHER LEVEL THAN BOTH OF THEM,BE A GOOD FATHER NOT A CHILD AT HEART PELE,APPRECIATE AND SEE GOOD IN OTHER PEOPLE NOT HATRED FOR YOUR BITTER RIVAL MARADONA,COS YOU ARE SEEING HIM IN MESSI AGAIN

  • barkafan

    0 0

    CHECK YOUR RECORD WELL BARCA HAS BEATEN CHELSEA 5-1 IN THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE BEFORE,LOOK FOR FACT BEFORE YOU SPEAK OKAY

  • shahwali

    0 0

    messi is the best still compared all other player

  • shahosian

    0 0

    ronaldo is better then messi

  • pure24

    0 0

    Okay, whatever man… This is not a Barca argument!
    This is Pele Vs. Messi; perhaps am mistaken, so all the guys in favor of Messi – why do u think Messi is better than Pele? What exactly has Messi done that makes him way above Pele.
    No offense intended, but every reason u guys have given so far is just subjective… There’s always another way of looking at it. U argue the goal tally’s but u forget that goals that Messi scored in friendly matches were ALSO counted wen adding the goals he scored in a calender year. Whats the official record for Pele’s career goals? and where are we getting these new values?!!!

    Am actually open to being convinced. But unless there’s some concrete reasons, there’s no way – absolutely no way – that Messi beats Pele. I wont even defend Pele… The records speak for themselves

  • Brad

    0 0

    Barkafan, your name says it all. another noisy know nothing.

    Pele has an official record of 1280+ goals in 1360+ matches. So there’s your archive, now, please, shut it.

    There’s a Bible verse that fits this, doesn’t matter if you’re of Christian faith or not, just read. Sadly, I don’t remember which verse precisely, or even word for word, so don’t quote. But here’s the gist.

    “A fool continuously rambles on, there is no quiet.” (I know I got the “there is no quiet” part right). And it’s the job of the well-informed to repudiate them.

    Oh, gee, look at how many people the verse applies to who’ve commented on this article!

  • Tallist

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    My 2 cents is simply that best players are judged on the best stages.

    Football – World Cup

    Atlethics – Olympics

    Basketballers – NBA

    Etc, Etc, Etc

    Messi is very good but until he can perform consistently in World Cups (plural) then he’s can’t be spoken of as the best ever.

    In my opinion he hasn’t even yet reached the point of being discussed as the best to come from Argentina!

  • tanyaradzwa tatira

    0 0

    I am lionel’s biggest fan.He is better than pele and Pele was better than meeeeesi but the fact remains that we can’t the two since they played in years and soccer standards were diff as compared to that of current days

  • Brad

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    Tallist called it right.

    Tanyaradzwa, you could learn something from that.

  • pure24

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    Actually, in a way – we can compare Lionel Messi and Pele. Who we CAN’T compare is Rooney Vs. Sebastian Vettel, Messi Vs. Michael Jordan or Ronaldinho Vs. Usain Bolt!!!

    Now I am just blabbing. But seriously, the fact that two people are playing or used to play the same sport means they can be compared. They are of different lifetimes, and both of them were/are amazing! Jealousy and personal opinion have nothing to do with their skills… That is why also, in many more ways, they are simply incomparable.
    Now Messi Vs. Pele then. Personally, I say Pele – U say 1283 goals is not official, but 600/700/800 something goals. EVEN THEN, they are still WAY above Messi’s tally. U say Messi has got better dribbles… Rubbish! Even Ibrahimovich and CR7 have better raw skill and don’t even get me started on Ronaldinho! Not to belittle Messi in any way, but Messi simply has better reaction time, an amazing instinct and can convert his already wonderful talent onto the field better than anybody at this point in time.
    But then again, someone else will say Messi wins the battle… So what do we use to get an indisputable answer???

  • Brad

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    We can’t as Messi has yet to truly perform for Argentina at a major international tournament.

  • Marjan

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    Hai guys,

    Lots of people defending Pele mention his 1282 goals in a career ( nota been all in Brasil league, US league and national squad) but when I look at wiki it says that Pele scored far less goals (approx. 720) so where did he score remaining goals?

    Cheers

  • magugu

    0 0

    pure@u hate Messi….dats all i can say

  • magugu

    0 0

    pele 3 world cups,1283 goals……………………….Messi 4 Ballon d”Or,91 goals a calender

  • Brad

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    Marjan, they were in friendlies. Yeah, Wiki has the 700+ goal thing, but if you were to scroll down a good bit, you’d notice a kind of stat sheet that shows games where the tally increases to 1282. FIFA considers that to be the official tally for his career.

    And don’t bother trying to downgrade Brazil league. Back then, the Brazilian players played at their peak performance in Brazil. Therefore, the best players stayed home. The same went for the best players in other countries (Alfredo di Stefano and Ferenc Puskas being notable exceptions). It’s only been since the 80s that players have started moving at will all across the globe; the best of them always going to Europe, particularly England, Italy, and, ahem, Spain.

  • tm

    0 0

    R u Mad Pale?

  • pure24

    0 0

    Hating has nothing to do with the facts – I hate classical music, but appreciate that it’s the best kind of music available. Hate poetry, but good luck finding a better piece of literature anywhere… Messi IS the greatest player currently in professional soccer. Messi however, is NOT the greatest player ever. That is still reserved for the best of the best, the people who have it all – people who have achieved the ultimate – both home and away. And we can all agree that Messi’s career has not been exactly perfect all-round. And Messi’s amazing career has spanned only four years. That is hardly worth the best-of-the-best material!

    Pointing fingers; “you hate this”, “you are rude”, “Pele is insecure” simply distracts from the facts. That Pele has done way, way more than Messi so far. I say “so far” because Messi still has the potential to annihilate Pele, but he is not just there yet! The truth is, we DO NOT know if Messi will have way better achievements than Pele’s by the time he retires. Instead of speculating, we can talk about right now, and right now, Messi has some catching up to do

  • Brad

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    Amen, Pure. Unfortunately, some dolt is going to ignore what you say and continue to insult Pele, avoid the facts, and run away when we correct them.

  • Kwaku Tuffour

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    Oh whatever man…Argentina will show their worth soon enough its inevitable. They hardly have the teamwork that Brazil had during that time. Theres no long way to go Messi is in a league of his own, these stats mean nothing. The impact hes had is mind blowing because of Messi’s uncontested talent Barcelona and Spain will dominate.

  • pure24

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    @Kwaku exactly what we are talking about, and Brad + others will attest – Why do stats mean nothing? Aren’t stats EXACTLY what you use to support Messi against Ronaldo???

    Come on man! give us reasons that have weight… If this were in court, your reasons of “if”, “when” and “will” would hold no water whatsoever. Now you are some kind of prophet or fortune teller? I mean, I can also say Messi gets a permanent drop in form from this night’s El Clasico!!!

    OPINION: Messi’s style is more attractive than Pele’s was.
    OPINION: Messi faces tougher defenders than Pele did.
    OPINION: Stats are rubbish!
    OPINION: World cup doesn’t mean a thing.
    OPINION: Pele didn’t actually score 1,283 goals.
    OPINION: Pele played in a tougher league.
    OPINION: Messi will have a career-ending injury.

    FACT: Pele has nearly a thousand MORE goals than Messi currently has.
    FACT: Club soccer is only as successful as the talent a club is able to bring (Man City will testify).
    FACT: The World Cup is the largest tournament in the WORLD. It is the greatest achievement a team can EVER have.
    FACT: NOBODY can tell the future.

  • Brad

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    The only reason this Kwaku guy said that is cause the stats do not favor his argument for a change.

    Another thing, Argentina typically don’t have teamwork, so it’s safe to assume that it’s not going to change. Argentina are known more for producing charismatic individuals (think Maradona and Tevez) whilst Brazil brings out individuals who do everything for the team, and not themselves.

    Now, let’s watch Kwaku run away. . .

  • ed

    0 0

    Once Pele scored 6 goals against against a very strong Girl Scout squad.

  • pure24

    0 0

    ahahahahahahahahahaha…. Very funny.

  • Brad

    0 0

    yeah, it is. I actually did laugh at his sorry insult.

  • Byaro

    0 0

    Why are we arguing about hoe a 80 year old dude played and a 25 year old dude plays ……

    They where both talent
    But its also a sense of taste

    If u think what pele did was more
    Important
    .. Then ur right

    If
    U think what messi did is more ikportant

    Mabye ur right also

  • messi is just good.

    0 0

    messi is just good.

  • Brad

    0 0

    ^look at this guy, give us something that’s more real.

  • pure24

    0 0

    If u think what pele did was more
    Important
    .. Then ur right

    If
    U think what messi did is more ikportant

    Mabye ur right also

    ****

    THIS IS AN AMAZING ANSWER…

  • Richard chaggs

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    Pele was and is stil the best but is ful of stupidity…..his 1283 goals raise eyebrows nw.if u a a legend then why making noise.people wil talk for u.he should learn to be well composed.

  • arshad

    0 0

    pele is a third class player as compare to messi.

  • Michael

    0 0

    Please, people. When Messi’s career is over, then you can compare him to Pele. Pele didnt stay in the same garbage league as Messi is. Put him in the BPL and then start talking…

  • Anan

    0 0

    I can’t compare Messi to Pele now for many reasons:
    – first, nowadays, we all know that referees protect stricker more than they did at Pele’s time. so Pele injuried many times. In spite of all this, Pele scored 1282 goals
    – second hand, Pelé had won 2 world cups but Messi o

  • Brad

    0 0

    Richard, people are talking for him. Have you not read the comments?

    Arshad, that was just plain dumb. Pele is superior to Messi. So if Pele is only third class, what does that make Messi? Certainly not 1st or 2nd class.

  • Roseah Edo'o

    0 0

    i luv messi but we agree together, that messi can’t break pele’s record.even if he dream for 1283 goals,he can’t win three world cup anymore.bcos dat will cost him 12 years plus dis, without loosing his form on hw he plays currently

  • Seedorf

    0 0

    Wen pele won d world cup, d teams werent up2 32, wen he scored all those goals goalkeeper werent usin handglove u&i knw hw vital a handglove is, wen pele was in active football dia werent d application of computer analysis to study d opponents, wen pele was active football was seen as a hubby dia4 everybody played it wit ease now its a bizness wit lots of money involve which means everybody is expected 2 justify dia wages. D d/f btw wen pele played d game & now is d dif btw black & white tv & samsung internet tv. Messi neva started as a centre forward rada as a winger check his goals per game ratio its 2gls every game if not more per game. Do not 4get his numba of assist .4 d past 4 seasons he has topped d assist chart he was only bettered last season on d chart by ozil. As 4 winning d world cup, its a mata of d nation one cumz from. U knw if he had nationalised in spain, u knw wat wud hv happened. A player like Ryan Giggs didnt play in any major int’l tournament until last olympic wit GB.

  • Brad

    0 0

    I don’t know if you’re trying to put Pele down, or simply explain how things go, Seedorf. . . . please clarify your position on this.

  • Georges Jean

    0 0

    Both Pele and Messi are legends! Let Pele be “Pele” and the truth is clear as the day…Messi yet has to win a World Cup for Argentina; Pele won three World Cups playing for Brazil. If you look at it in terms of technical skills with the ball, they have different styles. In general, only a great player knows how to compare himself to another great one. Winning a World Cup is the true test and Pele had passed the test!

  • Georges Jean

    0 0

    Soccer fans must understand that winning and excelling in Club levels present various soccer approaches. A player may do well at Club level but fail at World Cup level. The World Cup 2010 is a case of study: What happened to Argentina with Messi? On International level, goals and winning a World Cup do count. Messi has not compared himself to Pele yet. But Messi is another “Pele” without winning a World Cup!

  • Brad

    0 0

    well said Georges.

  • Georges Jean

    0 0

    Thank you, Brad.

  • mani segaran s/o velu

    0 0

    pele is legend during the time football not developed well like now,technicaly,and the old fashion,but messi is doing magic on the field every time he plays now with wonderful technic/solo runs and scores goals every day,and messi never said anything about pele or even maradona,or comparing him to be like them……pls remember pele is pele……maradona is maradona………..and now messi’s time…….so the former legend’s can keep quite and see what messi is doing now…at this time the whole world is enjoying the way messi is playing football………….if you are declared as a legend,then pls keep ur mouth shut n stop critcising others,that’s the best way…

  • hamada

    0 0

    pele is a senil fool, i hate his types
    always talking shit about how he is the greatest of all time, PELE go eat a dick
    messi,ronaldo,falcao,suarez,bale
    all of them are 10 times the player you were you fucking rubbish cluless person…defending and tactics are 100 times harder now, and specially against messi he played mostly against people parking the bus while you rubbish cunt played when teams played with 2 defenders and 6 strikers…
    i always get really pissed off by this pele charchter and maradona as well, atleast he doesnt talk rubbish about how he is still the best in history rubbish

    Pele, even morientes is 10 times the player you were…you played football when it had 20% of the quality and intensity of todays game so instead of talking shit go eat a dick and save your self the embaresment! because 99% of the people reading an article like this will laugh at you pele…

  • hamada

    0 0

    wow. its like any english fan actually being proud of the 66 world cup. pele is old history and both brazil and argentina won the world cup after him, it wasent becasue of him…any one who compares football in the last 20 years to any type of football prior to that is 15. or 14 because teams played 2-1-7, what the f are you talking about??? ofcourse pele scored 2-3 golas each game…pele only knew how to jump and shoot, he is like god damn heskey, he is a discrase to even 1% as good or as skilfull as messi or ronaldo…

  • schoolfees

    0 0

    world cup is nothing compared to UEFA Champions league, winning world cup is a team achivement, pele is not even the best scorer in the world cup that he claims that he had won, so what was his contridution in those world cups. even the other players that played with hhim can claim to have won those world cups.

  • Georges Jean

    0 0

    Anyone is entitled to his opinion. After all, this a fixture. Messi, has said that he is not comparing himself to anyone; if you read more features on this site, you’ll see his statements! Nevertheless, being somehow objective on this point, it remains a fact that Brazil won 5 World Cup Titles; Pele won 3 World Titles playing for Brazil. Without putting Messi in the picture, for FIFA this has gone into World record. As a great player in the PAST, Pele also watched soccer! Messi is also a great player! Pele likes Messi-and so does Messi. Let FIFA be the JUDGE. “Technicalyy,” Pele said “we’re on the same level.”

  • Georges Jean

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    As I said previously, anyone had his opinion about whom he considered to be the best soccer players. While I do not endeavour anyone to agree with me subjectively, Messi is a great player and would desire to win a World Cup playing for Argentina. And this is a fact! Technically speaking, Maradona, Pele, Zidane, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, German and English players exhibit different tactics on the pitch. By the way, I had written an article about World Cup 2014, which is titled: “the Prognosis” You may click on my name above to give your opinion on some of them. Thank you!

  • Brad

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    Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but they are also given brains and common sense (“common sense seems to be an oxymoron though) for a purpose: to know what’s/who’s better. Evidently, the Messi bandwagoners above have neither.

  • Brad

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    Another thing, notice how they’re opinions are: certain leagues/tournaments are only worthy if Messi has played/is playing in them AND won them.

    To quote a common rap phrase from my hometown: “You ain’t slick, you ain’t slick!”

  • Georges Jean

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    I believe that they are subjectively exaggerating in giving their opinions, and you’re right in that aspect. Thus, defending a player by how one feels about the player can be misleading; I perceive that your focus is fairly objective, which is somewhat good in terms of footballing conception. For instance, I used to comment on World Cup Brazilian blog, where many lauded my views on soccer; I hope that those who favor Messi over Pele ought to give fair and objective opinions; you’re right, of course, because some appear to be insulting Pele’s record instead of projecting well-informed opinions! There should be common sense and objective opinions when one tries to compare and comments! Your point, Brad, is pertinent to the post.

  • Georges Jean

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    To reiterate a point, I simply will say that Club side level is different from International level; a good coach trains each one in different ways. To excell at Club level is not the same as World Cup level: thus, discrediting Pele for his International’s record does not do justice to the game! I do not want to be repetitive, but: What did happen to Argentina in the World Cup 2010 with Messi? Although Messi is performing well, he yet desires to win a World Cup with the Argentinian squad. Finally, if it’s possible, one may comment on my site: There is a module about “The World Cup 2014: Prognosis” Click on my name to get to the site. Thank you to soccernews.com for the purpose of commenting in the site.

  • Georges Jean

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    Finally,an on-topic note: Pele said: “When Messi has scored 1281+ goals, won 3 World Cups,” then “he can talk with Messi!” In other words, for those non-reasonable and insulting comments about Pele, you’d better think twice before you say that Messi is better now than the unique legend Pele in the PAST. Simply, Messi does not think that he can compare himself to the King in Football, Pele!

  • pure24

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    Eish, this blog has become so vulgar!!! Unfortunately, and all I have done is spot this out; all the insults come from the Messi supporters… Its funny how they put Messi as the ONLY soccer player. I am not belittling Messi in ANY way, just stating the facts. Facts thaat are more than slightly biased to my opinions, but still facts. Even the best worded insults will do nothing to prove your points guys – and personally, I think you are being both insensitive to other readers and unfair to the discussion. It just goes to show to the people who are actually interested in this topic that you guys are more supportive of Messi than you have brains – go ahead, get as vulgar as you want and give me your best shot!!!
    This may seem of topic, but this is what I mean – I do not actually want to be rude, and I do not mean that you guys are dumb/not human, but just that you have given no intelligent debate whatsoever. There is no objectivity in your arguments and not an ounce of evidence-based fact! I am yet to see a PROPER reason why Messi is the best – hats off to everyone who pointed out Messi’s record-breaking feats. However, reasons such as “Messi can dribble better”, “Messi scores in every game” or “Soccer is now more technical” is simply a bit too opinionated to be fact. Here’s my argument for all three of the above stated: One – what is dribbling? I mean, according to me, the best dribbler in the world is Hartem Ben-Arfa, seconded by Andres Iniesta! So what are we using as a rock-solid definition of “dribbling” so that there is an undeniable basis and no bias whatsoever as to who the best dribbler in the world is/ever was?
    Secondly, you say Messi scores whenever he wants… Are you listening to yourselves? No, I’m not arguing against the fact that he does not actually score in every game. I am saying that somebody who scores in every game is not supposed to have less than half the number of career goals that Pele has. Fine, Messi still has a full career ahead of him but saying he WILL surpass Pele is pure speculation.
    And lastly, I actually agree that soccer is more technical. Then again, so are the clubs themselves – Barcelona now has players from all over the world; they have the money to get pretty much anybody they want and they have a full panel of coaches and technical staff, including scouts who can sniff out talent from the remotest part of the world and lawyers who are so savvy that they can beat APPLE in a court battle any day! Now that, if anything, compared to a time when Pele had to use pure skill and played for a club which could only afford fellow countrymen, actually puts Pele even more in an advantage!!!

    Indeed, I have written more than I intended. Yet, I must state two more things: The FIFA World Cup is just THE biggest and best soccer tournament in the world. Fact. And Pele has just achieved THE most as compared to Messi. Appearances. Goals. Records. Fact.

  • Georges Jean

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    TO: Pure 24—Besides the post of Brad, I believe that you have your point about the Messi vs. Pele’s case. But, if you had paid attention to my posting, you would see that I emphasized all the way that Messi cannot be compared to Pele. But, for those who had insulted Pele’s record on this post, I would advise them to go the TOP of this page and click on INTERNATIONAL CUPS and then click where it indicates WORLD CUP—you’ll see an pertinent article about Messi explaining why he failed the 2006-2010 WCup [Date: 3-18-13]. I had made enough references defending objectively Messi vs. Pele [in the PAST] in my posts. Re-read my posts, especially the last one before yours and you’ll see what I mean!

  • Georges Jean

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    Messi’s own statements! GO to the TOP of this page and click on INTERNATIONAL CUPS -then scroll to where it indicates WORLD CUP—-There’s an article about Messi there! And, finally, Pele’s own words: “When Messi has scored 1,281+ and won 3 World Cups,” then “we can talk.” GOAL.COM [a previous article].

  • Samin mahi

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    Actually a world cup winning team needs 11 good players.Pele had other 10 good players but Argentina lacks defenders. To be honest messi is better than pele or maradona or figo and pele shoud be more polite.

  • pure24

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    At Samin mahi , I agree that Pele was a bit too sarcastic, insensitive even. And he definitely came out as insecure – and again, the World Cup is also more than just about a single player…

    Messi’s record breaking feats are so amazing, and he’s always breaking more records that mostly its down to whom you hate the least/love the most. However, the very fact that World Cup trophies are more than just a player also emphasizes the fact that sometimes its more to do with personal opinion. And I am talking Ballon D’Or; its the greatest, most coveted award – yet, still a subjective thing. If you ask me, I think Iniesta and Sneijder should have won at least one apiece. And if you check, the winners are chosen by VOTE (not fans, but International managers, captains, journalists and the FIFA board).

    I think its only GOALS that are indisputable… well, not indisputable but the most solid proof of talent (except for goalies… and defenders. And some central midfielders) – and what do the goals tell us??? If this were the future, we would say Messi won FOUR FIFA World Player of the Year awards. And Pele scored OVER A THOUSAND career goals. So, once again: its a close one. Almost too close to call. ALMOST

  • Brad

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    Messi’s got a chance, Samin, to overtake Pele as the best ever footballer. But he hasn’t so much as equaled Pele, let alone bettered him, and his window’s closing fast.
    Pele’s stats speak for themselves, and the trophies he’s helped Brazil and Santos win to boot.

  • Kwesi

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    Personally I think Pele is not in the same class as Maradona, let alone Messi. Give credit where it’s due.

  • Brad

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    The credit goes to Pele then. His stats are more impressive than Messi’s AND Maradona’s, and so is Pele’s trophy haul.

  • Amos

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    Comparing a full time professional to a semipro…..
    Messi is playing at the highest level of football. Football has evolved from the world war days. I haven’t seen Pele play. Have seen some of his goals. I am not is position to talk about his performances. He seems to rate himself very high. Messi broke another record this weekend. This is what he had to say.
    “The least important thing is the streak, I was fortunate to score in all those games and help the team to keep on track. But that’s not important. We wanted to win after the effort of the squad that were selected but we could not”

    I have ample time for modest humans

  • Be Real

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    Amos. If football has evolved from the war times as you put it, what importance does it have for Messi to break any OLD RECORDS. You Messi groupies are short sited when you want to. Messi is a great player, but he will never win 3 W. Cups. Where it was Pele alone or other 10, Messi will never have a team like that of Pele behind him.
    Sorry but my vote goes to Long Live The King, Pelé.

  • pure24

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    Comparing times is simply a way of trying to go around the FACT that Pele has so many goals; way more goals that even if we were to take away the number of Messi’s entire career league goals from Pele’s tally, he would still beat Messi by an extremely ridiculous margin – Old times or not, Pele’s total goal tally is too big to ignore. If it were that easy those days, they why is it ONLY Pele with such a tremendous tally?

  • bryanirving

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    Messi has the edge. World Cup is way more difficult to win now than 50-60 years ago. European leagues are far more globally supplied with top class players than the Brazilian league has ever been. Pele very talented and made the difference in some great teams, but Messi’s goal scoring record in La Liga and over one year makes him in another class. Having watched them both and Maradona, I’d say Pele comes third.

  • cliff

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    I think Pele played soccer when there were not too
    many good players Maradona played when soccer
    skills had improved and there were a lot of good
    players, as skills improve it would be impossible to win world cups consecutively for example I think Pele is too boastful. though I think Maradona has the edge
    Regarding Messi he is still young and will sooner or later catch up with the other greats

  • Talha

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    He should not compare himself with Messi because I is not possible football used to be a completely different game because if Pele was in Messi’s time he might not do the same. Because football is 3 times more difficult.

  • derrick

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    who is lionel messi or maradona compered to pele yes messi is still young but even if he still play foot ball at the age of 45 he will not still score the number of goals that pele scored thesame with him to win 3 world cup not easy in this kind of morden foot ball that is been practies today i will say messi still have a very long way to go to be at the top of pele.

  • Issac

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    Does anyone in here have any clue about Pele anyway? Yes his team won 3 WCs but Pele only played in 2 of them. He missed the second wc due to injury. He didn’t play in the knockout rounds of final. And plus there are waaay more teams playing in the WC than in Pele’s era. Lets just get those things straightened out.

  • Ray

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    If want to compare,Pele played in a team full of stars that time, but Messi is not (national team).I think Messi is a better player than Pele by far (at their time)

  • pure24

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    Just to clarify @Issac; even two World Cup trophies is still TWO more than Messi. And yes, way more teams – but does that mean a tougher competition? If you note, SPAIN do not seem to mind this “tougher” era… They’ve won all the major tournaments they’ve participated in since 2008. So then we can say that they faced easier opposition, right?

    And about soccer stars, a major number of records is still held by many more people other than Pele who played during Pele’s era. And the guys who won the Ballon d’Or that time as well. The same applies to this era, other guys other than Messi have also made record-breaking feats so soccer is hardly “tougher” now than then. Yes, its more complex, but then so is its mechanisms – in fact, nowadays, defenders have been restricted by so many rules that its not the same as in that time. Even granting awards now is almost Europe-only!
    Lastly, Pele had great teammates, and that’s why soccer is not FULLY about individual performance. And so does Messi, but how can you say that Messi doesn’t play in a team full of stars (BOTH Argentina and Barcelona)? REALLY???

  • Brad

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    Another thing Pure:

    this Isaac “genius” said that more teams play now in the WC than back in Pele’s day. What he fails to see is that means, in Pele’s day, only the bona fide teams got to the World Cup. Isaac and company fail to see that, in the words of some actor in Narnia: “Numbers do not win a battle.”

    Also, if you were to compare the skill (not star) level of Pele’s teammates at national level with those of Messi’s, you’ll find Pele’s were superior, at the very least in being the most important thing there is, and that’s being a GOOD teammate, not a GOOD individual player- Argentina are know for individuals (read: Maradona), Messi being one of the relatively few to actually being a team player (Maradona could do it too, but not in a Brazil-esque fashion).

    Messi fans, you might as well give up. You lost this battle the moment Pele pulled out the facts he has over Messi. While the goals record Pele has may be broken by Messi (with La Liga’s defense, outside of RM in particular, and the stricter refs to boot helping Messi), now Messi is at the stage in his career where at most he has 3 more World Cups in him before retirement. And when was the last time a country won THREE CONSECUTIVE WC’s? Oh wait, yeah. . .

    Unless Messi gets some teammates who play with him for Argentina in the mold of his Barca (or while you’re at it, Pele’s teammates with Brazil) teammates, Messi isn’t even going to win two World Cups, let alone three.

    And it’s the World Cup where it matters most. More than domestic league, more than domestic cups, more than World Club Cup, more than Champions League, more than anything and everything else in the world of football.

  • Rupen Maharjan

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    yes, it is right that pele is a great player but i think he is very proud of himself and his record. Look at leo messi he is very cool he doesn”t care with his records he just enjoy playing football. He goes on playing and scoring goals and i am sure he will beat the record of pele and prove himself as best ever footballer in the world.

  • pure24

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    Brad, I’ve got nothing to say – you just put it bluntly, and bluntly is how the truth is best laid out. No but’s, if’s and maybe’s, just the bare truth.
    At Rupen that is exactly the point! As soon as Messi UNDENIABLY establishes himself as the best EVER, who are we to argue against that? But RIGHT NOW, he’s still got ground to make up… He’s a great lad that Lionel Messi, and he’s good people

  • Brad

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    some of those goals have got to be vital ones in the World Cup, Rupen, that help his country win that trophy.

  • ISLAM ISTANBOULY

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    IM A BIG FAN OF PELE BUT BACK THEN THE DEFENDERS WASNT AS GOOD AS THEY WERE NOW, ALSO THE GOLIES ALL WHAT WE HEARD ABOUT BACK THEN IS THE PEOPLE WHO SCORE THE GOAL BUT NOW LOOK AT ALL THE NAMES OF DEFANDERS WE HAVE AND HOW GOOD THEY ARE IM SORRY PELE BUT BACK THEN THERE WAS NO DEFENDERS FOR ME MESSI IS THE BEST THAT EVER CAME AND CR7.

  • Brad

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    give us some facts, Islam. back then, those defenders may have been sorry, but they made up for it by taking advantage of lax refereeing and tore into attackers. Messi and CR7 wouldn’t survive in that hostile environment, nor any offensive player today.

    how many times must we go over this.

  • fabio jouliani

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    well , comparing pele and messi is totally wrong and I am surprise to see pele is comper himself with messi .!! pele was introduce to football when football was simple .in his time it was easy to win over against for example: African or Asian or even other teams in south American beside Argentina Uruguay. in such simplicity if you are good is not surprising to become pele !! don’t give wrong I am not denying pele ability but knowing todays foot bal will tell you how genius messi is
    comering him with ronaldo is wrong too ! ronaldo is more lie excellent finsher whereby messi is not only a good finsher also a play maker and grate passor.

  • Brad

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    Have you ever heard the phrase “Football is a simple game, but the hardest thing to do is play simple football”? (May not be completely accurate on the quote, but you get the gist)

    And have you not noticed that eventually Pele and company played the elite opponents during the World Cups back then? Another thing, even now African and Asian teams aren’t as advanced as you make them out to be.

    You are indeed denying Pele’s ability and position as the world’s best ever footballer.

  • Charles

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    listen Pele z beta thn Maradona and beta thn any player i know,Messi hs a grt team(both at barcelona and Agertina) his not jst tht good bt moreover Pele z the King

  • Brad

    0 0

    here’s someone who actually sees the truth.

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