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Pele: I have edge over Messi

Brazil legend Pele has praised Barcelona star Lionel Messi, but noted that the 24-year-old still has a long way to catch the football legend.

Argentina international Messi became the second player in the history of the Ballon d’Or to win the prestigious award three times in a row when he lifted the title earlier this month in Zurich.

Pele acknowledged that he is a fan of Messi, but stressed that the diminutive attacker faces a hard task to equal him.

“Technically speaking, we are practically at the same level,” Pele told Le Monde. “We have both received a gift from God.”

“Records are made to be broken, but it will be hard to break mine. When Messi has scored 1,283 goals and won three World Cups, then we will talk.”

“People ask me all the time when there will be a new Pele. I tell them: ‘Never’. My parents shut down the factory.”

Fri 20 January, 2012
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519 Comments:

  1. Brad says:

    Cause they’re blind and, in the words of an old friend, “prejudicial”. ’nuff said.

  2. Blaugrana says:

    Pele is off his med’s again. Pele was great but unfortunately his stats are greatly inflated by his own hand.
    I believe that Messi is and will be ONE of the greatest players to ever play the game. At 25 years old he has many years ahead to achieve that greatness.

  3. Pure24 says:

    Brad, Anthony and Cloud… Really like your comments: So far, I have not read ANY proper reason why Messi is better than Pele – not even one!
    I mean, ‘Pele faced easier defenders’? ‘Messi has “more skill” than Pele’? Really guys?

  4. Brad says:

    Duly noted, Pure. Well, more than duly, I suppose. . .

    Also, another example like the ones you gave of improper reason is right above your previous comment: “At 25 years old he has many years ahead. ..”

    Quite frankly, this guy stated that Messi’s already the best all time, especially when he made an attack on Pele not having his meds. Still not a single fact to support him.

    Messi is already an all-time great in my opinion. BUT, to say he’s the best there has ever been is bull. He hasn’t even won a World Cup, for crying out loud, and that’s the trophy no player can be complete unless they have it on their resume.

  5. Pure24 says:

    Exactly. A player is great by working in cohesion with his teammates. Messi is that at Barcelona. A player becomes even more great as a solo player Once again, Messi can take matters into his own hands… So Messi IS great. But Pele great? Not even close

  6. cloud says:

    .. winning three world player awards in succession doesn’t make you the All-Time Greatest Football Player.

    .. what makes a football player a God is when you have done everything there is for your Club and Country.

    .. i would even say that Zidane and R9 are better than Messi. These players don’t carry any “record” with them, but their drive and determination helped their clubs and their countries win multiple trophies.

    .. take r9 for example, he had a major knee injury last 2001 but he came back and played in the 2002 World Cup and rolled over everyone in his path. Now that’s what you call a god-like player.

    .. and let’s see how messi is with argentina; he was not even visible in Copa America 2011; he can’t even score a goal against Bolivia, Costa Rica and Colombia. Messi already has 2 World Player awards back then, but he can’t even show it in against lowly teams.

  7. cloud says:

    .. and as for the current crop of players, i would say Iniesta and Xavi are better than Messi. These two has helped Barca dominate and also helped Spain to win and defend their Euro title and of course, the WC.

  8. Brad says:

    And they’ve also created a large number of Messi’s goals to boot. Look at how low his goals per match ratio is for Argentina, when compared to his ratio for Barca.

  9. mamu says:

    lionel messi is the only footballer in ancient and modern times that dribbles his way out of any defense in the world.he does not care how good your defense is.He shatteres any defence and is the hardest player to mark in the history of football.If you look closely,messi is never marked by single or two players.he can’t be marked by a defender but destroys a whole defense.no soccer player was this much important to mark,there are always 4 or 5 marking him and none in soccer ever possessed such skill.maradona scored by dribbling 5 english players and that was the greatest goal ever scored.Messi scored at least 10 goals of that magnitude last season.why can’t you just see.

  10. Brad says:

    Why can’t you just see it’s not just skill and dribbling that helps you be the best, it’s winning silverware to PROVE it, for BOTH club AND COUNTRY! So far, Messi has only done it at club level! He’s not the best, mamu. Pele is.

  11. Tony says:

    Pele was good
    Maradona was better
    Messi is best

  12. Brad says:

    Incorrect. The real saying is “Maradona? Good. Pele? Better. George? BEST!”

    but we all know Pele is still better, you can see it, you just don’t want to admit it.

    I’ll go ahead and say Messi is already an all-time great, but he’s not even level with, let alone better than, Pele. He hasn’t even won a WC, so how do you expect him to be better, especially as he’s virtually invisible for Argentina more often than not in any game?

  13. messi d10s says:

    Haha pele you old fart I thought u were dead already! . Here we go pele with his stupid comments lay off that meth man! This comment is as stupid as your other ones which say neymar is better than messi! Haha your a fucken joke pele .just shut ur mouth and let people remember you as the great pele not the pele that makes stupid comments cuz he’s pissed off Brazil doesn’t have the best player anymore ! Cant face the fact messi is already greater than you! . Messi is the greatest in the history ! Neymar lost gold medal match against Mexico! Sorry pele u need rehab lay off those rocks!

  14. Brad says:

    And someone needs to grow up. His eyes have yet to even open, so of course he can’t see the fact that all he did is sound like a little child and Pele is still the best all time and Messi still has a long way to go to even reach Pele, let alone pass him.

  15. mamum says:

    BRAD and ALIKE
    You should know that there is a difference between the best player ever and the greatest player ever.pele is the greatest but s for the best,you know deep down that none has ever nearly reached the quality that messi has.can you really tell me that pele,a guy that was ok with the ball is the best there ever was?, come on there was maradona.you should know that pele was lucky to have 3 world cups.he personally won one, 1962 was won by garrincha,and the 1970 medal was not given to him in the first place.pele was good and there is no doubt about that.But the world has never seen or heard what messi is doing right now and you have no argument on this.
    as for his performance in argentina,you clearly did not watch the recent argentina brazil game.he singlehandedly won the game and don’t even say brazil is not a good team.
    leo messi can be criticized now,but for a 25 year old boy to be considered as the best there ever was,we don’t base our arguments on such a big issue without rational proof.
    if messi was a story, people like you brad will be the villains and when messi retires,he will surely be honored as the best there ever was.
    as for pele,he was clearly not the best player ever.he did not come to europe and prove to the world how good he was.the brazilian teaM consist of greats like rivaling,tostao,carlos alberto and garrincha.you can go and see the 1970 world cup and there were equally good players like pele on the team.the edge that he has over his teammates is that when he was a 17 year old boy,he came of from the bench when hope was lost and brought glory to brazil eight years after the heartbreak of 1950 maracana.pele was great but he never played the champions league.what can you say about cryuff,maradona,bobby charlton,george best(whom pele acknowledged was better than him),pushkas,alfredo di stefano,guiseppe meazza,zidane,ronaldinho,zico,socrates,garrincha,cantona ,ronaldo,ronaldo,eusebio,romario,hagi.these equally matched pele and some were better than him.his 1200+ goals were just his own calculation.some were even from personal local goals.
    pele was no doubt good but to say he is the best is out of question.he certainly was the greatest but definitely not the best.the matter of choosing the best player is a big one and lionel messi certainly is making his tory everyday and is the only one capable of being attributed the title of the best ever.At least for now.

  16. Brad says:

    Tsk, Tsk. . . you’re really coming at me with that? that fist bit: “You should know there is a difference. . .”

    Quite plainly, no difference at all, Mamum. People like you Mamum, are the Democrats (read: Liberal fools) in a Presidential (or Prime Minister) election.

    By the way, Pele did play in the Champions League.. . . the South American one, the Copa Libertadores, I believe it’s called. And he won a few Club World Cups to boot, along with the South American CL.

    It’s convenient that you compare Pele to guys who won at least one CL, but share one thing in common with Messi: NOT A SINGLE WORLD CUP TO THEIR NAMES, in fact, George Best and Alfredo di Stefano, and Cantona never even played in one (In Georgie’s case, it was his own fault, he didn’t feel proper pride in his country; in the latter two’s case, x factors such as injury and bans came into play). And the fact he came off the bench to bring glory to Brazil in 58, shows he was pivotal.

    Also, something I’ve pointed out a MILLION+ times to other people like you: You say that it’s down to Pele’s teammates that he won 3 World Cups. Quite right, for a change. Here’s why: You can’t do everything alone in football, it’s a team sport. Teammates are everything. The SAME goes for Messi. Look at his achievement at club level with Barca. Look at who are the two best playmakers in the world: Zavi and Iniesta. Notice they assist a majority of the goals Messi scores. And notice, how much lower his goals per match ratio for Argentina is, where he doesn’t have those two to support him. Again this is an x factor that is uncontrollable- such as Pele’s injury in 62- but surely, if Messi was truly the greatest all time, that wouldn’t matter.

    The thing is, Mamum, both Pele AND Messi are the crown jewels of already superstar heavy squads. It just happens that Pele was the big guy on campus at both club AND international level (where it counts the most) while Messi has still yet to truly make an impact for Argentina, particularly in a major tourney at Senior Level. When you compare that to Pele scoring 6 goals in just 4 games in his first world cup, you’ll see Pele is better. So why compare a friendly to a World Cup? Honestly. . . I’m American, and we just won our first ever match against Mexico in their home stadium. Likewise, we also won our first ever game against Italy. Thing is, they were friendlies. Once we do that in a real tournament, then we’ll talk. Same goes for Messi’s hat trick against Brazil. Yes, Brazil is tough, possibly the toughest team of all-time, but friendlies are still something to not get excited about.

    You’re still every bit as subjective as everyone who supports Messi. Yes, I’m subjective myself, but I’ve been a lot more objective about it. Many of those people you mentioned won the World Cup, but no one beside Pele has won 3. In fact, you just tried to compare guys like Cruyff and Puskas, and co., who didn’t even win World Cups to Pele, and that sounds familiar. . . oh yeah, Messi hasn’t won a WC, and you seem to think he’s greater than Pele. How ridiculous, for you to compare ANYONE (even Georgie) favorably to Pele.

  17. mamu says:

    Brad brad
    i’ll be more specific this time.
    It seems as though you don’t get my point.PELE is the most decorated player there ever was.no question.but brad he played football when there was no offside.how different would todays soccer be without an offside.Certainly, filipo inzaghi could have had a 1000 goals by his side.
    You can argue that mexico 70 was the first offside world cup but hey,go and watch the world cup 70 and tell me pele could have had 1000 goals if the offside was there.
    when Maradona was voted by the world as the best ever,fifa(a corrupt organization with no question) sabotaged the results and claimed that fifa officials will be the ones to vote.
    I am not even arguing about the great maradona(an argument which you can’t win by the way).nah.leonel messi.I just don’t know why people like you just cannot see something right before your very eyes.
    BRAD, Honestly, I am a manutd supporter for over 10 years and I saw what he did to us in 2009 and 2011.there are some thing one just cannot oppose.
    you claim that messi is always assisted by xavi and iniesta, you are certainly do not watch barcelona games regularly.
    you should look at all the 73 goals messi scored last season and please find out if xavi and iniesta assisted 15 please.xavi and iniesta are always not high in assists but people always use this against mess.They are gr8 players but go and look at the assist table over the years and see for yourself.I am not saying they don’t assist him, they do but he is not entirely dependent on them and can work with any decent players.
    As for his 73 goal tally,this is something pele could only dream of.his highest season was 110 goals.
    i urge you to look at the 73 goals and tell me if that is the creativity of someone like xavi and iniesta.
    you claim that he does nothing in argentina and that he only plays well in friendlies.again, you really don’t watch south american qualifiers.
    You should feel ashamed if you can mock messi who is only 26(God knows when he’ll stop mesmerizing teams) by claiming he has not won a world cup.I don’t care if he wins the world cup or not for surely he is the best that has ever been seen.Even maradona acknowledges the fact that messi was better than him.We all know that maradona was the best before messi.
    I think you have a grudge over argentina and I believe you are a brazil fan.I really do understand you because you have been producing great players for over a century and there is a saying that ” you ay be excellent,but not braziliant”. I believe that brazil have the highest amount of soccer superstars not question.So for a young argentine to be considered as the best ever is a huge blow to brazil as a whole.
    Pele,maradona,ronaldo,zidane, these are certainly the top 4 players we have ever seen on tv no doubt but all of them can be marked by a single individual.Messi is a player that goes past anyone,any team,at will.He does it with ease in a manner that makes a first time soccer viewer see the sport as easy.
    Brad,you know the truth and even if you are not convinced now,you will in the future.
    i urge you to see barca games this season.he will break his 73 goal record and set another one surely.7 already nd the season is just getting started.
    you know that to win 3 world cups is almost impossible.the only great top come close to that is ronaldo(2) and maradona( who was controversially left out at 78,won 86, lost 90 unluckily.The mere fact that pele boasts about his 3 world cups is even shocking.he had luck and one should not boast about outcomes he has no control of having.pele was great no doubt and will certainly be in football folklore till the end of time.But as alive as he is now,He and some ppl like you who are biased in nature dont want to admit the mere fact that a simple and humble little boy from argentina who is only 26 is considered better than the great pele.Pele is an offside legend and the offside is a general and integral part of the game.
    The simple truth is that it changes everything.offside is the reason why pele will never have an edge over maradona.but we’re talking messi here.At 26, he is by far that best player ever televised and we have not heard from folklores either in eqypt or in ancient greece about anyone that can dribble past any obstacle in football,is a threat any second he holds the ball,marked by 4 people at all times and can’t go out of every situation
    Brad has no point but to take this conversation longer.am tired of this argument and whats worse is the fact that I know I am right.

  18. greg says:

    1 Maradona
    2 Messi

    long,long nobody after and then maybe….maybe
    Pele but it’s very doubtful because there are players like R9,Zidane,Best

  19. Vilen says:

    Pele is going senile. No I am not saying Messi is better than Pele, because that is a stupid comparison, but Pele saying he is better because he won 3 world cups? Doesn’t he aknowledge that he had a team? He came into one of the strongest teams at the time. I mean a player that sat on the subs bench for 3 world cup wins should be considered runner up to Pele then, I mean 3 World Cup winners medals will be his…

    Talent wise, Pele was ahead of his time he played a style which is closer to that of the modern game, but Messi is the master of the modern game, so IMO it is impossible to compare the 2.

  20. thanasis charalambous says:

    messi is gonna be the best player in the world if he win a WC. only then. but now if he stops his career noone will forget him. pele plays only in america that is important. and do not forget messi isnt a forward. is a winger

  21. mamu says:

    its a shame that people like brad think that only strickers can be the best of all time..They seem to be subjective on this matter and yet they claim messi fans are.
    Its a shame no one brought the offside matter in February and now brad is finally silenced.You can never convince anyone that a guy that played during an offside era is better than those that play after the offside.As creative as brad is, This has got to make him doubt his stance on pele

    Ppl like brad think that statistics is the most important thing in deciding the best of all time.I would like to tell you that football is not mathematics and if it were,mancity would have beaten arsenal 11-0! Last season.

  22. cloud says:

    .. mamu, football or any other sports will be decided with statistics. If it will be based subjectively, all of our favourite players will be best-of-all-time.

    .. if i were to decide subjectively, i would say RAUL is the best player of all time. But that would be foolish.

    .. it’s even foolish to say that messi is the best of all time, he still haven’t won anything for his country, that will always be a dent in his career.

    .. and talking about argentinian players, why do they treat maradona as God ?? Was it because of his exploits in Club Level ?? NO !! It’s because he won the World Cup for Argentina, he lead them to Glory. And so is Zidane and so is R9.

  23. Csanad Horvath says:

    basically never. no offense to messi but he will never win 3 worldcups. but he is better than pele. the tricks those days wouldnt even trick a dog today. Pele is good but messi and ronaldo are better, thats why i think maradonna is 1st, messi is 2nd, and c. ronalso is 3rd. ronaldinho, pele, ronaldo, cafu, roberto carlos, beckanbauer, puskas, di stefano, zidane all come close but messi is obviously better.

  24. Brad says:

    “Played football when there was no offside?”

    Nonsense, mamu. Offside rule was invented back in the 1800s. Pele played in the 1950s, 60s, and 70s. Don’t try and be funny.

    Though I do agree with you on FIFA being corrupt. . .

    And pal, I’m a United fan myself. I saw the same stuff you saw. I still do, as I fortunately received a channel recently that shows a lot of la liga action, so saying I don’t watch them regularly is also redundant. But statistics is what determines things like this, not opinions. In my case, and Cloud’s it’s actually both stats and opinion.

    I like what Cloud said. If it were up to me, Wayne Rooney would be the best ever player, not Pele. Or I could go with Landon Donovan, or Clint Dempsey, or even Lionel Messi. . . yes, I do love watching him play, unless United is his opposition!!!

    But sadly, it takes statistics to determine who’s best. And when it comes to that, Messi’s stats with Argentina aren’t as shocking as those he has with Barca, particularly in tournaments. He hasn’t won a Copa America (I’m not sure, but I do believe Pele did win one or two, I’ll have to google it), and he hasn’t even won a World Cup either; considering the World Cup defines a player far more than anything else, that is a big hole in Messi’s resume. Something that I know he’ll do his outstanding best to rectify, I know, but will his personal best be enough? He scored 73 goals this past season, as you said, which is eye-popping, but it didn’t bring la liga or champions league to Camp Nou. That part is what gets me scratching my head as to how it never happened. Yeah, the Catalan side won the Supercoppa, but nothing else that I can recall (please do remind me if there is anything else they won).

    I’m not sure of Pele’s specific stats, goals-wise and overall silverware- at the age of 26, but one thing that stands out is 2 World Cups to his name. If you were to downsize that, then you’d have to downsize R9 winning the WC in 94, due to him not playing there. Or, since we’re United fans, you’d have to downsize Roy Keane when we won the 99 CL, for not playing in it.

    Another thing, please don’t make assumptions of me. I’m not a Brazilian fan. I enjoy watching them, but my teams are the good ol’ USA and Manchester United. The way I watch Brazil is the way I watch Barca, an outsider entranced by the team’s overall flair, plus the superstars up front.

    I know I’m right. Statistics don’t lie, both in real life and in sports, and in history. I already know that offsides was invented roughly around the time the Laws of the Game were written down. That’s a good, um. . . 70, maybe 80 something years before Pele was even born. So Pele’s tally isn’t due to no offsides.

    You have failed to silence me. You’ve only brought up old arguments from before (apart from maybe one or two new ones) and I’ve answered in pretty much the same way as I always have. And notice how me and Cloud have always had the upper hand here on this article. We’ve used the stats, being objective (seeing as neither of us are Brazilian or Barca haters) all the way. I’ve not lost any faith at all. It’s almost like my faith in God, I guess. . .

    Messi has the chance to pass Pele as the all-time greatest. But he’s not there yet.

  25. Brad says:

    Wow, didn’t notice I’d put that much.

    Another thing I’ve just noticed: “mancity would have beaten Arsenal 11-0 last season”.

    that’s a “what if?” scenario. So many people have done that here before, Mamu. No point in going into such a thing.

  26. ysd says:

    Well this one is for brad and cloud when you say pele scored 1200 odd goals you talk insane then you say pele is better than messi because he won 3 world cups.
    First of all the discussion was that who is the better player skillwise,technically nd staminawise nd pele alone didnt won 3wc it was brazil who won wc nd you compare international succes with individual brilliance,how stupid ?
    Messi is the best ever at 25 on individual skills, ball control,playmaker,scoring goals.
    Barca are barca because of messi,
    last year they went to ucl semis nd contested for la liga because of the amount of goals he scored,but ronaldo had benzema nd higuain alongside him.
    So the conclusion is he is the best ever player to have played the game.

  27. Brad says:

    The discussion is about whether or not Pele has the edge over Messi. That’s everything from goals, silverware, and skills.

    Skill-wise, dead even.

    Silverware, I have no doubt Messi wins at club level. But Pele’s pedigree for Brazil when he was 26 is far superior to Messi’s.

    Pele has 3 World Championship medals, he helped Brazil win 3 WCs, and therefore that is something no other player has ever done before for any country. Messi can only really hope to win 2, unless he were to play in 2022 as well and win that to boot. Were he to do that, (winning 3 in a row) than I’ll say Messi is the greatest all time, because then he would be! But he hasn’t even reached Pele yet, let alone pass him, so Pele is still the best ever!

    You’re putting up the same arguments as so many before you. I’ve already won against them. (yes, I know I sound big-headed, but I’m basing my arguments on fact, as well as my own opinions) Save yourself and don’t even answer back.

  28. washed says:

    pele never play against quality like manu rio, vidic & chaelsea john, luiz & pepe , pique, silva, nesta maldini etc. iam very much confused whether he crossed the limit of 83 goals

  29. Mark says:

    Winning or not winning cups doesnt make u the best player.
    Best was amazing but played for Ireland so was never going to win something.
    Pele keeps going on about his World Cup medals when talking about who uis the best player. He one them by being part of a team, its not a individual honour!
    Oh his 1200 goals, most of them in a poor league. Not in Spain, Italy, England or Germany.
    I think you can only compare players who play in the same decade and the same position. Anything else is pointless!

  30. Marius says:

    Who is the best player in the world ever? Messi apparently.

    Who was the most fouled player in the last CL? Ribery, there’s some food for thought.

    Pele unlike Messi faced some pretty ruthless defenders and i’m pretty sure the president of uefa at the time never came forward praising referees for defending Pele.

  31. Brad says:

    He helped his team win 3 WCs, he was the crown jewel and most important player on a squad with many superstars, much like Messi today. Only Messi hasn’t won a single WC.

    Contrary to your not so original opinion, winning trophies does make you the best. Particularly for country. That’s where it matters the most, after all. You can break records all you want, but if those record breaking performances don’t bring much- if any- silverware, then it’s pointless.

    As for poor league, the only poor thing about Brazil’s Serie A is the defensive steel (well, they are Brazilian), or should I say, the lack of it. But then again, La Liga isn’t known for defense that much, either. Otherwise, Madrid and Barca wouldn’t be winning so many matches by blowouts.

    I’m fairly sure that Pele would have moved to play for a European team- he definitely attracted interest from Manchester United, and maybe even Barca and Madrid- but he was held back by his own government. They labeled him a “national treasure”, which made it impossible for him to sign for a foreign team as long as he played for the Brazilian national team. Another thing: surely, if a league is a poor one, then no player, defender, midfielder, striker, or keeper, that plays in it would be anything less than poor. And Pele was the dead opposite.

    Answer me this, has any other player been named “national treasure”? I think not, maybe we should google it. I do know for a fact Messi isn’t.

    Nothing new with what you said, to be honest. Sorry for sounding arrogant, but these things have been covered already.

    Also, @ washed, Pele scored 77 goals for country. Of course he scored far more than 83 goals in his lifetime, and in definite competitive matches to boot.

  32. Toba says:

    Most goal scored by pele was an offside goal while messi scored great goals.

  33. Brad says:

    Where’s proof. You’re yet another one who doesn’t use any facts, I’m wondering why I even reply to you.

  34. cloud says:

    .. wow messi the best player in the world scored 100 goals in their qualifying against peru – NOT !!!

  35. Oybek says:

    “We’ve used the stats, being objective (seeing as neither of us are Brazilian or Barca haters) all the way.”

    Why do I find it so hard to believe that Cloud and Brad are not Barca haters?

    Barely does any popular article go on this site without you guys siding with ant-barca position. One of you support MU while the other RM, both of the clubs Barca have always challenged to say the least. Apart from this, you guys were always the first to support any team like Chelsea in case of some controversy or anything this sort. You both can’t stand the fact that Messi is the greatest player of his generation, one promoting Pele, who has not touched a ball since Messi was born, the other trying to death to say that ” Cr7 is superior”.

    Should we redefine the term “objectivity” so your comment above makes sense?

  36. Oybek says:

    Cloud,

    Congratulations! Your patience paid off. You had waited so long to be able to comment that ” finally, Messi left the pitch without a goal this season”. But guess what! Messi may not have scored a goal during their clash against Peru but he was the best player of the match nonetheless according to goal.com!

  37. cloud says:

    Peru ??!! against peru ??!! Is that how the named best player in the planet should play ?? Best player of the game and yet they only had a draw. Again, no xavi no inies – messi is crap.

  38. Brad says:

    Oybek, I don’t mean to sound anti-barca, I REALLY don’t!!!!!! It’s just that I don’t like how arrogant some of their fans are. Yeah, you get arrogant United and Madrid fans, but it happens my views normally come into conflict with the Barca fans’ views (but not the teams style of play, definitely not). While I may be subjective at times (let’s be honest, the true subjective side to me is a whole lot worse than what you may think) I typically use facts to support my claims, which is objective. Apart from you, and a few others, the majority (read, most, not all) of the Barca fans just insult Pele and don’t use facts. When they do, they belittle Pele’s stats. It may be the leagues he played in aren’t very good, but then again, Barca doesn’t have a whole lot of opposition in La Liga. La Liga isn’t as defensively rough and tough as the EPL’s (Puyol being a huge exception), something similar to Brazi’s Serie A.

    They also say crap about how Pele played when there was “no offside”. Anyone who calls themselves a football fan should know the offside rule was made in the 1860s, roughly around the time when the Laws of the Game were written down. This does imply, at least to me, that they say Pele’s some old confused man who’s off his meds. Again, that’s insulting, which is purely subjective, not to mention a tad immature.

    I don’t say Messi is crap. . . at least i don’t remember doing so. but I have stated that his performances aren’t as impressive for Argentina, which is where his downfall is. While I do rank Messi is my own personal All-time top 5, he’s not #1 or #2. That’s Pele (#1) and Ronaldo (original, #2, and it happens he played for Barca and Madrid, not just one or the other.)
    Even then, Pele’s miles ahead of the others, while R9′s win for 2nd place was a scrap with Maradona and Zidane. Notice I don’t have any United players in this.

  39. Pure24 says:

    Hold on… Oybek. Do you know that CR7 and R9 are the ONLY players to have ever scored against every team in a single La Liga season? That means that Messi definitely left the pitch without scoring (for example, El Classico).
    Didn’t mean to talk about that… about the issue at hand then. Exactly HOW is Messi better than Pele? What part of Messi would we remember when he retires, and say he was better than Pele? Which achievements would we highlight and say his performances by far outshone Pele?
    Yes, Brad and Cloud etc… are using facts to their advantage. But that doesn’t make them any less of facts. A THOUSAND OFFSIDE GOALS?! Come on guys… ONE THOUSAND GOALS!!!

  40. Brad says:

    I know right. crazy, the way so many people here try to belittle Pele. And they wonder why we use facts, which point out that Pele is in fact better, still. It may be that Messi gets belittled in the process of using facts, but then again, stats will belittle anyone and everyone who doesn’t measure up to the one who has the greatest pedigree.

  41. Roy Smith says:

    My god, this argument is still going on?

  42. Pure24 says:

    Whats your point?

  43. cloud says:

    .. i wonder where is messi during that argentina-peru game.

    messi – the 70-goal machine, the only player to have scored 5 goals in a UCL game. But wait, all these are from barcelona. hahaha

    .. i couldn’t even name one good player from peru, but how come argentina only scored 1 goal ?? Where is the goal-scoring prowess of messi ?? Where is the man that won three straight world player award ??

    .. oybek, do you know why I value the World Cup too much ?? It’s the tournament where a good player becomes great and becomes a god. it’s only played for 31 days and on that 31 days, a player must be on top of his game at all times. Each game in the world cup is damn important. Losing one game in the group matches will automatically put your team in jeopardy in going to the next round. One hiccup and you’re dead. The league on the other hand is played for a damn long 38 weeks, you can always take back lost points as the week progresses.

    .. and if you compare that to Pele, he was only 18 when he demolished the world cup in 1958, scored a hat trick in the semis and had two in the finals. again, 18 YEARS OLD. He was an absolute nobody back then. 18 YEARS OLD.

    .. but for messi, 24 years old now, yeah, all his records are from Barca. But for his country ?? With their latest outing in Peru ??? You would expect a player of his caliber to sweep lowly Peru, but that didn’t happen. That’s why Messi will only be Dependent with Barca and that’s why he would never surpass Pele.

  44. cloud says:

    .. all the god players are remembered because of their World Cup Success.

    - Maradona – hand of god
    - zidane – 2 goals against brazil
    - Ronaldo – 9 goals
    - Matthaus and Klinnsman – 1990 germany

    .. let’s just take maradona coz he’s from argentina, can we remember a game of him on Club level ?? If we mention the name Maradona, we would always say – HA !! THE HAND OF GOD.

    .. i’m not saying that Messi is an absolute crap of a player, it’s only that’s he’s over rated.

  45. san says:

    both are greatest player of their generation….
    we cannot compare one sweet flower with other..
    as both deserve…praises..
    i have seen pele game…and..messi also…
    both are like player of another planet..so stop this discussion because….flowers are same …

  46. Dapsony says:

    Stat such as WC win make no count wt me when choosing d best player and it wl never do for any resonablly and objective person. We must knw dt no player can take credit 4 any cup won in d game of football as such belongs 2 d team. So it’s a team work 4 every game won an every cup won, no individual player, no matter hw good, hw creative, can tell me he won 3WC. If there’s such person, let him swear dt he did all d playin alone. I’m quite certain dt d only creteria 4 comparism among player are stuffs lik individual quality, ball control, dribbling,strenth and tricks dt resulted in goals.etc

  47. Pure24 says:

    San makes a load of sense.
    I will not belittle Messi in any way, and its true that its rather unfair to say Pele, who is now retired and played in a league four decades and a continent away, is greater or not as great as the current top of the cream. However, since the topic is at hand and if you’ve got to give an answer… Mostly, its all down to personal favorite (or least hated), but you’ve got to judge all round success – at CLUB and international level. And Pele smashes Messi’s bar at BOTH club and country! What else can we use to judge the better of two players bridged by decades than by than achievement? Skill? Surely that will depend on a person’s perspective of skill…

  48. Brad says:

    Dapsony, skill level isn’t the only thing someone needs to be the best. All that talent, skill, flair, and potential are wasted if you don’t help your team win, both at club AND international level.

    Messi has done it at club level. But not at international level. That is where he falls short.

    Meanwhile, Pele did it at BOTH club AND international level. That is where he stays head and shoulders- and maybe even close to the elbows- above Messi and company (not a joke on Messi being short, not at all; just an expression).

  49. Nwanza Oscar says:

    No comparison at all but Messi has to defend himself out of Barcelona especially in his national team, he needs to prove to the world that he does not need the special player assistance such as: Iniesta, Xavi… to score, his record with the national team is poor not very poor but poor i hope he needs to do something then no body can talk…

  50. cloud says:

    .. i’m actually hoping that Messi will win something for his country, but till that day comes, let’s not rate Messi so highly that he’s the best of all time.

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